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I also have mixed feelings about this. Fewer meetings makes me happy. But the cynic in me tends to agree that this feels like another place where women have lost a voice. I am so hungry for inspired women’s voices. Old-Timer wrote:
I was going to say it sounds like individual spiritual counseling. As long as the person doesn’t try to influence someone any particular way, I have no problem with it = although it can be open to abuse of various kinds.I have a good friend who does this sort of thing in Utah from a foundational Buddist perspective, and he is exceptional.
Yes, that’s what I don’t want… someone telling me what to do! It could be really interesting to explore with someone with a different religious foundation…
Old-Timer wrote:
My “why” for a long time has been to be a voice that can help others. I occasionally am uplifted by things that others say in talks and lessons, but the biggest reason I continue to attend is to be there for others. (I say that even though I have not attended for quite a while due to COVID-19 and my job requirements.)
I totally agree to with this as well. It sometimes feels so hard to be there for others due to my own introversion (speaking up is way out of my comfort zone, so when I do it it comes at both a personal and social price that I have to consider). I feel like over the past year my confidence and voice have grown and been much more successful outside of church, which is now shining a light on just how shut down I feel at church. I am wondering if I can somehow use the one to strengthen the other to find a place at church, but not feeling super confident at the moment…
Roy wrote:
Hi Tica.The primary program was one of my pet peeves as well (during my time as a primary teacher). I felt that practicing for it was pure drudgery for the children. My primary presidency was highly motivated to make sure that it went off well because they felt that their efforts would be judged by the entire ward. IOW, the PP felt more motivated to practice the program to perfection than to make primary an enjoyable experience.
Another thing to consider is that at least some of the songs come down from leadership above the stake level for the children to learn/sing. If you were to ask for certain songs to be skipped, you may be putting your PP in a position between honoring your wishes as the pianist or in following the direction of the hierarchy.
Yes to all of this. As much as I would like to serve in some capacity, I think it may be time for me to actually use my voice and step back on this one. Given my current leadership I don’t see my input making much of a difference, so maybe it’s better just to politely let someone else take this. I know of a gal who would love to be the primary pianist, they could call her
I haven’t participated yet, so am far from an expert. There are probably a lot of similarities with some other traditions. From speaking with my colleague what I understand so far is that a spiritual director sees their role as helping you find your own spiritual path, as opposed to acting as a “expert” in whatever tradition. It sounds like they will often do a lot more prayerful listening than talking and will tend to ask questions more than give solutions. I’m sure it’s like counseling in that every spiritual director is a little bit different in their approach, so there’s probably something to be said for finding a good match. There are training/certification programs. The one that was recommended to me was non denominational and looks like it includes spiritual directors with really varied backgrounds. I hear you! I have been struggling with the same thing. Why?!? I had come to an uneasy peace with a decision to go back in person in a couple of weeks when more local restrictions are being lifted. But then I met with someone about my calling, and I felt myself having a really visceral “flee/freeze” response right there in the meeting as they shared what the plan was. I am to play the same 9 songs over and over in primary until the kids learn them for the primary program (which they are apparently planning on happening). And they picked 2 songs that I have a really hard time with due to messages that I don’t agree with. Even COVID/singing concerns aside, if I go back and do this then I don’t feel like I am living in my integrity, as my own children will be regurgitating those songs over and over as I give implicit agreement to what (for me) have been harmful messages as I play them. In the meeting I’m afraid I came off as either a bit of an idiot and/or too negative, already burning bridges. When the (kind, dedicated, well intentioned, super orthodox) sister left, I found myself cold, sweaty, and literally shaking. (It was 90 degrees outside). I feel like the goal once second hour is reinitiated for kids should be to help them feel safe, seen, and to experience the spirit. Not to rote-ly rehearse for a program that very few of the kids even like doing. But as the pianist my thoughts rarely have mattered. They may as well use a computer accompaniment. This is not the kind of “service” I want to do. I could try to speak up and change the songs at least, but if I do that, I think I just become more of a pariah.
nibbler wrote:
I did A.B didn’t happen.
I must have not done A well enough.
Try A again, this time really putting in some effort.
Still no B.
I’m trying to do A as best as I possibly can.
No B.
I’m not good enough to do A. I’m a horrible failure.
This sums up very nicely my faith crisis around never receiving peace about the temple a decade ago.
I don’t know much at this stage of my journey. But recently I have been thinking that blessings aren’t what I used to believe. As I parent my rapidly growing children, I give them lots of different kinds of “blessings”. But most of them are calculated opportunities to help my kids 1)have the requisites for health (eg clothes, food) 2) promote growth as they move from one stage to another (eg an allowance, karate lessons), 3)feel my love (eg time together), etc. Only very rarely do I actually “reward” them with tangible rewards for a specific action… like the other day when I promised a dollar to whoever could find my lost running shoe. I ended up finding it myself
😈 The point being, that if God operates as loving parents do, maybe “blessings” are a lot more plentiful than we realize.
Roy wrote:
Those that attend via Zoom without it being absolutely medically necessary can be viewed as deceiving themselves into thinking that they are keeping their covenants when in fact they are not.
This is some good perspective taking. I have a hard time seeing both sides sometimes. I also think that for a true orthodox believer, in some ways needing to see signs that people they care about/associate with are all in does feel like it comes from a place of love. Even though it doesn’t always come across that way.
Thank you for sticking around! I didn’t visit for awhile…covid just made church so much easier that I wasn’t worried about it all the time. Such a relief to find you still here! It’s a bit of a relief to know that I am not alone… Roy wrote:
I wonder if you could receive a calling that does not require attendance on Sunday. What might it look like for you to be an “active” latter day saint that does not attend Sunday meetings? How might you and your husband go about making that work? Mental health is health after all.
Interesting idea. I am one of 2 pianists in our ward, so ever since they found out I played I haven’t done anything else. In some ways that’s great…easy calling where I can pretty much hide behind the piano/organ. But if I bow out that leaves the other gal to do it all. Another reason I feel like I would be letting people down. But this may be something to think about….
I was talking to a friend on Sunday whose journey led her to leave the church a couple of years ago. She appears so at peace with where she is at. Sometimes I wish I could just leave.
AmyJ wrote:
I am pretty sure that I am not going back.I have decided for myself that a boundary I am putting into place is that I am not going back to Sacrament Meeting without my husband
That seems like a thoughtful way of handling it… drawing clear boundaries around specific things. I am going to have to think about what boundaries might make sense for me.
nibbler wrote:
I know the anxiety well and I think most of mine came from trying to keep church people happy at the expense of my own happiness
Well said. Also at the expense of what feels like my true self. I guess what I have learned during this hiatus, is that there is the possibility of peace on the other side of the anxiety. That Sunday has the potential actually to be a day of mental/spiritual/physical rest. I have been more nourished by my now-habitual Sunday morning walk, sometimes with music or a (mostly non LDS) spiritual related audiobook than I have been by church meetings in a long time.
We have actually been doing a hybrid thing in my ward for awhile as well. My husband (who is in the bishopric) has been going while I have been zooming in with my kids. I’m sure that has resulted in some faithful tongues wagging and wondering.
I don’t care too much what people at church think (except that my daughter has several friends at church, and I know that my behavior could influence their parents’ perception of her). But I also care deeply about my family, who are all staunch and dedicated believers. My husband is actually okay with whatever I choose, which I am so grateful for. But my parents/siblings/in-laws would most definitely not be.
What it boils down to is that when I think of potential reasons to go back, none of them would be for myself….and yet I feel that I will probably capitulate and do it for the people I love. I know I have a choice, but it doesn’t really feel like one…
Oh. My. I didn’t even think of this as an issue. My daughter is in the same age bracket, she turned 10 in late December. I am super anxious about her going into YW (I have some baggage that I am trying not to project onto her, but also she seems really young). But as for the issue at hand… I have finally come to some peace specifically by leaving the temple. I have zero desire to think about it, participate in interviews/talk about it with local leadership, or pretend I am okay with going. My daughter doesn’t know how I feel about it, and she really wants to go. Though she can’t seem to sit still or be quiet for longer than 10 minutes, so maybe she won’t like it as much as she thinks. I honestly don’t know if parents going with their kids is a thing around here, but if it is she will be really disappointed and ask a lot of questions if I chose not to take her. I am so not ready to deal with this
Interesting thread. I love that DatkJedi looked up the original context of that quote, and I love how it changed the meaning for me. I realized that I have been operating at least partially under the subconscious assumption that if my kids don’t turn out to be good LDS then I have failed. Failure is a harsh word to apply to such a complicated task as parenting. Minyan Man, if I achieve a similar result to yours with my kiddos as they grow, I will definitely consider it a success.
