[Tica]

Thank you so much everyone! It has been a crazy couple of weeks. With lots of tater tot-like dinners. And pancakes, lots of pancakes. Anyway, thanks to some of my kids’ “unique ingredients” I am definitely feeling a little out of control of the parenting recipe right now! :wtf:

They are great kids though. And whether or not any of us stay in the church in the long run, love will definitely continue to be an overarching value in our house. Mom, my best friend has never “churched” either, and she is one of the best people I know. We spent last weekend camping together and I came away feeling seen and inspired. There is a lot of good in the world.

[Tica]

Quote:

If you are going to the effort of believing in a loving God, what point is there in filtering his or her value of you through the minds of people who just might not have one that works any better than yours?

I love this. And have a problem with doing this to myself all the time 😳

[Tica]

I am cautiously hopeful. Simple could be good. I like the idea of fostering our kids’ self awareness and individual relationships with God as opposed to focusing on rewards. I will try this with my kids. I am sure, though, that the quality of church youth activities will largely continue to be dependent on the leaders’ capability and motivation. And I wish we weren’t so insistent on separating the boys and girls.

[Tica]

I am so thankful that this changed (dare I say it’s about time!). My family is ecstatic. For some reason all I seem to be able to feel about it is a deep emptyness. I fear that all of these baby steps in a really positive direction have come a bit too late for me. At least I’m not feeling the crazy unexpected rage that I experienced after the temple changes.

[Tica]

Heber13 wrote:

But what they will remember the most is the parent that held to true values and made them feel loved

I hope so. The very basics are my religion right now. Love. That’s what it all comes back to for me. And that’s something I can do.

Thank you, Heber. Your thoughtful reply meant a lot.

[Tica]

Thanks, mom. Taking a big deep breath now

[Tica]

That sounds amazing. Those girls are fortunate to have such a thoughtful board member 🙂

Good leaders make all the difference in that program.

[Tica]

I agree with much of what has been said, especially regarding the judginess that tends to go along with the WoW.

One other thought that I have FWIW , is that the spirit of the way the WoW is implemented and practiced now may be related to refraining from addictive substances that can impact agency and (depending on the substance) relationships as well. That said, obviously there is a massive difference between something like heroin and something like green tea. And then there are some glaring holes. I think it would be a fascinating social experiment if sugar was added to the clarified list of substances to be avoided… 😈

[Tica]

Gerald wrote:

We all struggle to evaluate our own competence…it’s actually part of the human condition.

Yep, I totally see that Gerald. And I’m not sure that getting rid of this perception will definitely help me evaluate my performance more accurately. However, I wonder if could… just maybe…help alleviate some of the constant inadequacy that I feel though. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. I also wonder whether if I could move past these (apparently subconsciously) ingrained ideas if it would help me move forward with goals, passion and purpose instead of hesitancy and self doubt.

It was so surprising to me that the church rhetoric about a woman’s role still affects me so much. I had thought I was past that.

I agree with Roy that the church is moving towards a more flexible and less harsh approach to this. It is somewhat helpful but doesn’t undo all of the internalizing I did during my formative years …

[Tica]

This would be a terrible idea! Thankfully our bishop asked my husband and I to be in the room for my daughter’s baptism interview. Kind, spiritual, and well-intentioned man that he is, he had absolutely no idea how to talk to an 8 year old. She looked to me for translations of almost everything he said to her. I can’t imagine how an interview would go or what kind of well-intentioned but non-age appropriate answers she might get if she had to ask him for clarification! Nope. Even with a spiritual giant of a bishop, one on one interviews with my kids would be a no go for me.

[Tica]

Quote:

Wondering if anyone else has wrestled with building a relationship with God outside the church framework and what that journey looked like.

Definitely. There are things about the church that my present self realizes really drove a wedge between me and God. I am still trying to repair the damage and figure out what that relationship is. For me, the interesting thing on this journey has been that once I let all of the “shoulds” fall away, the occasional answers that I have received often are quite different from what I would have expected and vastly different than what my believing family and friends would like for them to be (I haven’t shared many of these developments with them…that could be another post altogether). And yet these unconventional personal answers have brought a lot more peace and growth than I had ever experienced when I was exactly following the church path.

What I have learned from my personal journey so far, is that I hope that God exists and cares. I think and hope that God can meet us where we are at and speak in a way that we can understand. And I think that will be likely be as unique as we are. Best wishes in your journey.

[Tica]

Roy wrote:

Suffice it to say that he has ordered his points and interpreted and prioritized them in such a way as to craft a specific narrative and meaning. We all do this! I do this! You do this! I personally feel that life is better and more fulfilling with meaning and purpose and narrative

I think this makes sense. I would much prefer to live a life full of hope instead of darkness (though it will always be there of course) wherever the hope comes from.

Mom, that is a really interesting point regarding the impact of mental health challenges. And, I think I need to read the Mother Teresa book

DarkJedi wrote:

I remember wondering then and wondering now if what he had was really a faith crisis. I suppose if he thinks it was, it was – but it was not the same as mine despite the similar feeling that God had cut me off and it lasting for years. That was a major component of my faith crisis. The difference? It doesn’t really sound like McLean ever really stopped believing

This is more in line with my experience. I do continue to reach out to God, but my belief system has been pretty drastically altered from the typical LDS worldview. And, the infrequent times when I have felt distinct help or peace have been “answers” that wouldn’t necessarily be church-approved.

I think when I watched this video that I had a moment of hope that I might have a confidant/support in my sister (we are really close). She sent me this link based on one throwaway comment I made during a shared weekend together because she is sensitive and thoughtful like that. Although we are alike in many ways, her faith is still strongly LDS bound, and it works for her. I think for spiritual musings I should seek out someone whose faith I can’t crack on accident. It would just be so great to be able to be a whole person with someone.

mom3 wrote:

I daily focus on gratitudes. They are not God specific. Just gratitudes. Deep inside an undying faith that all this will be purposeful holds me. It’s all I’ve got. I clutch it like my last coin.

Your God and my God must be out golfing.

Gratitude is powerful. I have been trying to focus on that as well. Tonight I paused and took a mental picture of my daughter joyfully running through the rainbow laced sprinklers in the park. That one is filling my heart for now.

Also, I hate golf 😆

[Tica]

mom3 wrote:

Your feelings are super valid. Mary Fielding Smith is smiling on you right now. She struck out as she saw fit. You can, too.

Thanks, mom

[Tica]

dande48 wrote:

I don’t think it’s intentional. I think most GAs, members, etc believe that if it supports their central message, and helps people to “come unto Christ” (however/whatever that means), it must be true… without checking context. It’s not really what I’d call deciet. It’s seeing evidence in everything to support what you already believe.

I mostly agree with this. Also, I am no religious scholar, but it seems to me that prooftexting and different interpretations of “truth” may be one of the reasons there are so many different religious sects in the first place… sects that all claim the same book(s) of scripture as the word of God. They just don’t agree about what the word of God means.

I have currently landed in a place where I habitually read the context, but even then I don’t often feel sure about the truth of my own ideas and interpretations. I do think that, proof texting or not, one viable purpose of scripture is self reflection and self improvement. Maybe the lesson I take away from a scripture is different than someone else’s, but if it is for self betterment, how much does that matter? When doctrine is being defined that is another matter though…

[Tica]

Quote:

Let your husband walk his path and celebrate his success. But also walk your path and ask to be supported equally, because your heart is pure too.

You can be a reasonable voice to say things that others may need to hear, including the leaders. And help he leaders see it is ok to have multiple points of view on many subjects.

With most situations in life…it will sometimes suck, sometimes be wonderful…and if you keep a positive outlook…you can find the good along the way, despite the bumps that will surely be there

.

Thank you! I think this was just what I needed to hear. I hope that I can be courageous enough to walk my path and speak my truth in a positive supportive way.

And, Roy, that testimony was brilliant 😆

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