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SamBee wrote:
Interesting perspective Tigger, are you referring to members who indulge in these, or the church leadership?
It could be both. (According to John Dehlin’s podcast with Shawn McRaney, he had used vodka and vicodin as a way of dealing with his crisis of faith.) I know that in my case, it has been the issue. It’s just like an alcoholic who drinks. He may not necessarily like alcohol, but does so to self-medicate, to help stop the sting of whatever emotional issue he or she is dealing with. It is the problem with our Church too, where porn is also considered by some to be worse than alcohol, and where the dreaded “little factory” speech creates so much angst, that men start to lie at an early age, and many us end up living a double life.
I wish there opportunities to be more honest about these things in the Church circle, and we’d all realize we were a bunch of sinners seeking the forgiveness of the Master. Unfortunately, we tend to want to think that such issues never exist and place them into the “forbidden file.”
I am not justifying the issue, but I would imagine 75 percent of LDS men are porn addicts, and nearly 80 engage in the practice of “self-abuse,” married or not.
Gorilla, check your PM. I’ve sent a rather personal response. I think that in some cases, substance abuse and/or porn are used to deaden the blow of finding out about many issues in the Church that seem paradoxical to many of us. Not justifying it, just saying it does happen. Welcome, Kyle. We all might have different issues in this group, but we all love each other as true brothers and sisters here, regardless of orientation, or thoughts on the issues. I can’t imagine how difficult life must be for you inside the Church as a gay man, but know that you have friends among us who are sympathetic to your cause.
Fantastic podcast. John and Brian, you are both angels! I think I would be likely out of the Church had it not been for Mormon Stories and StayLDS.com. I was recently called to a moderately significant position in my ward, despite the fact that months ago I confessed to my Stake President that I was beginning to have doubts about many parts of the gospel and God in general. I would not have made it here, were it not for the support and understanding offered at this site. I feel like I actually can be “me” and at the same time continue to serve in the LDS Church. I have also arrived at a new stage of faith, where my spirituality has increased due to the doubts that I began to have. I hope that I can channel that faith into love and action, in order to better serve my fellow man.
I must have barely missed both you and John at the MTC by 3-4 months (I deducted that by listening to the podcast). I do recall hearing Pres. Pinegar laughing about a “notebook” he had seen from an “interesting soul” and some odd drawings a few months earlier! (I heard that as he was talking to Jay Jensen in a lunch line.)
I also share your feelings about the Book of Mormon. I do believe that Joseph Smith translated a history of people who lived in the Americas, but I also believe, he added many stories, ideas and Bibical passages through inspiration on his own.
I too experienced a mystical re-conversion years ago, after doing some things that were not appropriate, and literally screaming in the middle of the night, when the Holy Ghost withdrew from me. I try to remember that when I start to wax agnostic/atheistic.
I have learned to appreciate the LDS Church through these resources, and discard in my mind certain “mistakes” such as polygamy, polyandry, and blacks in the priesthood.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your selfless service. I hope that as my own situation improves, I will be able to make a financial contribution to your sites. I am sorry I can’t right now.
God bless,
A brother somewhere out in Cyberland
This is an older thread, but I was watching a video with Dr. Ted Lyon, who explained that the marks were often sewn into the garments at home, back in the early 1900’s. Check out the video at roughly 15:00 in. http://www.youtube.com/v/EJKLELq8Dno&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1 My thanks to all of you for your help. I had studied some of the material ahead of time, being properly armed just in case the teacher started getting off on a tangent (B.H. Roberts, Eyring, Brigham Young) and started extolling the virtues of young earthism and anti-scientific evidence. Minutes before the class was to begin, I was informed that the teacher had not arrived. I was asked to give the lesson. I decided to play the middle ground, and emphasize the importance of a creator, but also placing equal importance on use of appropriate scientific facts. I made it clear that God respects such principles as laws on which he “organized matter.” Not one person disputed my assertion. This was a pleasant surprise as I had heard the ridiculous “man from monkey” anti-evolution statements in prior classes. I was sort of hoping somebody would bring it up, but maybe the Lord knew I would have gone ballistic, had the topic reared its ugly head. I was uneasy going into the class, but felt inspired after finishing it.
Let me also take this opportunity to thank everyone here at staylds.com. You have no idea what it means to me to read your posts everyday. After experiencing spiritual disaffection, I often feel YOU are the only ones who understand. There have been so many times I’ve wanted to “leave,” but have decided against it after reading the posts here. I actually do feel the spirit reading your thoughts and ideas. There is an aura or brotherhood (and sisterhood) that mystically permeates this site that has given me so much comfort. I cannot talk to my spouse or family about these things, as they have told me that I am an apostate. I don’t feel that I am. I have just disavowed a cursory, simple look at Mormonism and religion in general, peeling it off for a more intellectual, profound understanding.
Again, thank you my brothers and sisters. As you pray for all of us (is that like a NOM prayer list), I feel your power. I will also continue to pray for all of you.
Please excuse my incongruence as I have jumped around probably too much for the moderator’s liking, but I did want to take this opportunity to share my feelings.
😮 Very interesting thread. I believe that in a couple of Sundays, we’ll be dealing with the topic of “creation” in the Priesthood manual. I have not studied the manual, but am looking at offering a rebuttal of sorts to the expected onslaught of young earth baloney that will be spewed that day. Are there any websites from LDS scientists who back up the idea of evolution? I have been encouraged to read some quotes from Eyring’s father and from the Roberts-Smith debates, but are there current writings about it? Let me make it clear: I believe Adam was the father of mankind as we NOW know him and that God did indeed direct the creation, but I am a strong believer that man is a product of evolution. Your thoughts? silentstruggle wrote:Thanks for the correction Brian. Do you know where the church regarding slavery during Brigham Young’s time as president?
In an interview with Horace Greeley, Young called slavery “inspired” and also acknowledged that it was practiced in the Utah territory. Here is the link so you can read it for yourself:
What about O’douls? If non-caffeinated Coke is now at BYU and the temple, if O’doul’s doesn’t have the heavy stuff, why not? Rix wrote:Sullivan does make some compelling points:
But I still can’t get past the overtly inflammatory phrase “violence against marriage” that Otterson used to describe the movement for gay marriage rights. I’m quite ashamed he chose to use clear political verbage in a speech that was meant to be conciliatory.
I can’t either. Violence towards marriage, when two consenting adults WANT TO have the right to commit to each other? That’s what marriage is all about. Domestic violence, divorce and other social ills create VIOLENCE against marriage. Glad you picked up on the phrase. It bothered me too.
I do believe man worship is a huge problem for the LDS Church, and was a huge stumbling block for me, especially over Joseph Smith, for many years. Some Catholics go overboard with the “Virgin,” but many Mormons go overboard with the “Prophet.” Nevertheless, the FLDS are really messed-up with the principle. They aren’t allowed to have a picture of the Savior on their walls, because according to their theology, “no one knows what he looks like.” (Even though Joseph Smith saw Him, right?) At the same time, if you followed the news a year or so ago, every FLDS home had pictures of Warren Jeffs front and center. Personally, I would much rather have the Savior in my home rather than pictures of ANY mortal. That’s not to say I don’t respect my leaders, but they don’t have the same footing as Christ himself. Excellent post. I too feel that we all learn line by line, precept by precept. A lot of things in the church have become difficult to accept, but by searching out the truth, I am at peace. I felt a special affinity to your post, and although I have not struggled as many years as you, my story is strikingly similar. I think those of use who have gone through such struggles may never again be TBM’s in the literal sense, but I have no regrets. I feel much more strengthened for my academic search and discovery of the truth, not a superficial glossing over taught by CES.
