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Hi Charity! I can sympathize with your struggle with your faith and trying to maintain your family. I haven’t figured that one out either. Today my wife told me I was just being arrogant, thinking I knew more than everybody else. Maybe she’s right. For me, the problem isn’t whether Joseph could still receive revelation after doing pretty selfish, despicable, and hurtful things, but whether God would choose to establish His church through such a man. I don’t really have any answers…
Hawkgrrl I love your post. I think I remember one of the 12 saying something at a press conference following the announcement that they kept the age difference in there to limit fraternizing between missionaries.
The Church Handbook of instruction (volume 1 for bishops and stake presidents) is online, although I’m sure the church isn’t happy about that. Anyway, after a fairly thorough search I can’t see that masturbation is mentioned any where in it. In other words it isn’t specifically wrong or prohibited. Of course there have been GAs that have spoken out against it in the past, but GAs have also spoken out against playing with face cards… I don’t think the church leadership really cares if people masturbate, but many of them think that it leads to other, more diabolical sins, so thus like to discourage it. Some bishops will ask youth etc. about it and ask them not to take the sacrament, but I think that is their interpretation, and neither doctrine, nor policy. I can come up with an explanation in my mind as to how God could work within multiple-dimensions (including time) to create the earth through evolution or “intelligent design”. This worked for me for years. However it relegates the Adam and Eve story to allegory or myth, which is where research is showing where most bible stories belong anyway. Just a few of many items on the shelf. Although it makes me feel good to be validated, but I’m aware that the purpose of this forum isn’t to convince others that the church isn’t true, or to spread my lack of faith to others so I won’t go into it. I completely agree with SamBee. Happiness is the goal, and we are emotional beings. Trying to deny our emotional needs is going to end in unhappiness regardless of if we are rejecting something that isn’t “true”. I realize that the church does a great job of filling many of our emotional needs. In fact research consistently shows that religious people are happier than atheists. Most of this can be statistically explained by a religion’s ability to provide a supportive community or group. My cousin left the church a few years ago on intellectual principle and still deeply misses the church community.
I think that most of our most intense emotional needs can be explained by evolution: Getting kicked out of the tribe meant almost certain death and the end of your genes. Status in the group means better prospects for spouses or mates and the best care for your offspring. This desire to fit in with and gain status within the group explains a ton of human behavior. We punish kids (time-outs), and adults (prison) by isolating them from their groups. Loneliness is true suffering. The church does a great job of filling this need for a supportive tribe. I am a little disturbed however by the data from John Dehlin’s recent survey that showed that non-believing active members had more angst than those that simply left the church. I realize it was from a biased sample.
OK Samlam. Point taken. However I still find the whole process dishonest. This is not how you find truth. Lets not forget animals. How we have bred them to look and behave a certain way. Is that who they were all along? And although it is comforting to think that you will see the beloved family pet again in heaven, if that is true then heaven is going to be chock full of chickens! Were there that many chicken spirits waiting to come to earth? I’m a linear thinker as well and I don’t find much joy in the nuance and philosophy of religion like many posters. I just have empathy for you. Twisting and turning things to look at them from all angles? I want to find answers or accomplish something, or else move on. How many years could you study Greek mythology before you are just completely bored and unfulfilled? I’ve been studying the church pretty much every day for 40 years now. I’m honest with myself in admitting that I am going to church for my kids and for the social interaction. That is what I accomplish by going. I was even before my faith crisis. If I didn’t have kids, and felt out of place at church I’m sure I would just stay home. I looked up the guy speaking in the BoA videos. He is a professor of religion at BYU. BS and MS from BYU and sounds like a lot of his PhD work was done in conjunction with BYU, but graduated from UCLA so that he could work at BYU (most universities won’t hire their own graduates). Only full time position has been with BYU. He’s not impartial. Confirmation bias at its worst. The smoking gun on the BoA for me is that Joseph identifies each person in facsimile 3 with phrases like “whose name is given in the characters above his head,” or “as written above the hand.” or “as represented by the characters above his hand.” We now know that is NOT what is said “above the hand.”
I want the church to be true as much as anybody, but as an academic myself I find it shameful that this person is deliberately trying to mislead people. This is unethical, is called academic dishonesty, and is grounds for a professor to be denied tenure, if not for complete dismissal from most universities. Everybody suffers if we forge results and mislead people. Can you imagine if all science was done this way? Start from a conclusion and go backwards, you dig and dig until you find a few scraps of obscure and weakly associated evidence that support your hypothesis, while ignoring the obvious and compelling evidence that is right there on the page!
I would love to hear his Egyptologist colleagues’ peer reviews of these videos. I don’t think he would be taken seriously again in his career. He better hope he doesn’t lose his temple recommend and thus his job, because I don’t think he could find a job teaching anywhere but BYU with shoddy and biased research such as this!
I read through your blog and left a couple comments there. I think that absolutes create an us-vs-them attitude which leads to (not necessarily creates) fear, intolerance, and hate. Since my faith crisis I have noticed that I am much more tolerant of people who don’t have LDS beliefs! Orson, alltruth, Tumult, Thoreau, westfield, Gerald, mackay, and many others: I truly am moved by your Christ-like love and concern for anonymous nobodies like myself. I’ll get through this. I have spent lots of time thinking and figuring things out. I feel better, and more grounded every day. I talked to my wife, who was more understanding than I thought she would be, and I’m committed to retaining and developing more Christ-like love and tolerance at church like what you have shown. I know that I don’t want to become bitter and vindictive like so many others that have left the church, so StayLDS seems like a good place for me. I’m grateful for it, and for kind and good members of this board, who tolerate questions and lack of faith.
I’m essentially in the same position as you. I’m trying to figure out what to do now. My whole life up to this point was just following the plan. I realize how much of my life thus far was doing what I was supposed to, instead of what I wanted to. I’m coming to the same realization, that I will probably be happiest inside the church. It helps me be happy, except when it doesn’t. I can draw boundaries and keep the things that make me happy and ignore the things that make me unhappy. I read some research today that summarized lots of research that showed that religious people were happier than those who weren’t. However, they could statistically contribute all of the difference to community. How the church helps you have friends and something meaningful to be involved in.
I teach Deacons too. I previewed that video and there was no way I was going to show that. In my experience some of the most spiritual and inspiring leaders/ and teachers have had sordid private lives. I think it is more accurate to state that you can’t have the spirit if you hate yourself. Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I will take your suggestions seriously. It helps me to know that others have gotten through it..
