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I believe they fell out of favor (for adults). I believe that part of this was because of personal gain abuse (some were promoting the sale of their own books/tapes etc.). Another aspect was the teaching of doctrines which they did not wish to promote (i.e. Hyrum Andrus) edit:
The fun one they don’t seem to do anymore … Road Shows
This is definitely NOT a item I need to put at the head of my todo list. I believe that Valoel made the following comment to me in a different thread:
“Think of it this way. You now know at least one way that didn’t work for you”
Delving into the depths of this topic is one of the things that did not work for me.
I’m grateful for everyone putting up with my dropping it into this thread. For some reason it was good for me to air this and see that others understand the complexities that this can, has and does add to our issues at hand.
Thanks !
roma; This is Chad … Sorry, been a bit busy … Check your PM’s on this site … I’ll drop you Kandy’s email address there.
She would love to talk.
Roma, sorry, i made a big mess of this … edit with comments mixed in
The following is from my wife. We have been married 28 years .. the last 7 of which I have been inactive. DW says that if you ever need to talk one-on-one … she is available.
I just walked into the office at home and my husband had me read your post and asked if I would respond because you and I are in the same boat.
My husband is a recovering alcoholic/addict for about 20 years. We were married in the temple and went down the straight laced Mormon path. He started reading the history of the church and many, many,many other books on the subject of history, of Joseph Smith and those that were close to him (i.e. B H Roberts, Heber C Kimball, the Pratt bros etc.)
He decided it wasn’t bad to drink coffee. When we were on vacation he would order a drink. All of which brought back all of the anxiety and paranoia as well as the embarrassment and fear. I had no one to talk to about it.
Anyway, to the point–I figured that if I love my husband and he loves me we needed to work this out. I figured he should have some respect for me and what I wanted too. We have talked about it from time to time. (fight is more like it)
He doesn’t drink because of the alcoholism and respect for the reality of what it alone can do to our marriage, me, himself, and our children. He does drink coffee.
He keeps asking me to get him a coffee pot. The smell of coffee does make me nauseous so I haven’t. He figures it could be embarrassing for me when people from church come over so he’s ok buying it at 7-11.
I honestly think some boundaries should be set for the 2 of you. Talk to him and ask if some of the concerns you have could be considered and see if the 2 of you can come up with some kind of boundaries.
Do you have children at home? What are you willing to put up with? Has your husband drank before? If so, was he an alcoholic or what kind of drinker is he?
Is he still in a position at church? Does anyone else know about all this or are you keeping this between the 2 of you? Have you taken it to the bishop? Have you gotten any church people involved?
I sat down with my husband and told him LOUDLY that it is stupid for someone like him (alcoholic) to start drinking because he is liberated and can. It can only ruin our marriage., I think he gets that.
The tobacco hasn’t been a problem in our marriage for a lot of years. (I have a brother that chewed, and got cancer of the mouth and throat. He still struggles with that) So that is gone for us. common sense won out there. Thank goodness!
Roma’s original comments with Kandy’s notes mixed in:
New here…I’m tbm dw working my way through life and dh’s disaffection. For some reason, probaby because of how I’ve been taught in a very strict tbm family, this is the topic (WOW) that is now bothering me the most. DH has a high calling in the church, but because of his historical research now interprets the WOW, and almost everything else lds, very differently. He thinks it is ok to have a drink or a few every so often- maybe once a month or so. He also thinks it’s ok to chew tobacco. He sees no harm in it, and that it has not changed him as a person. On the contrary, he feels liberated and happier. I on the other hand have become paranoid and have anxiety every time he does it or am anxious wondering what he’s doing or other things it can lead to. Part of that could be because he kept it from me and it was 6 weeks
it is a huge feeling of betrayal/ I thought we were on the same page and were raising our children this way and we were going on mission after mission when the kids were gone etc. huge yeah i know!before I discovered that he had started to have a drink. We’ve agreed to keep it out of the house, but sometimes it seems to slip back in unawares…
So my question is- how bad is it really to have an occassional drink
If he’s an alcoholic extremly badand chew
we all know what that can do! enough said.after the stress of the day or a hard day’s work? How do I get over my anxiety?
Pray a lot and really listen to the Lord when he speaks! This is the tricky part. It has been very hard for me to understand and know how to handle myself.How do I let go of my desire for him not to do it?
I don’t think it ever goes away, but love him a lot more!He says he enjoys it and will not give it up.
He will find one day it is only destructive and no good can come from it. I know some day can be a long time in coming.How do you get over the fact that your spouse’s now chosen lifestyle is one that you were taught to detest and stay away from at all costs?
You don’;t. but you do try to see things as he now views them and try to work from there only with help from God.I do not want it to be a part of my life, but now I have to accept it.
Not without boundaries you don’t. It is not only his marriage it is your as well! You need to come up with boundaries that the 2 of you can live with.Even the smell or sight of it causes anxiety and repulsion in me because of how I was taught.
Me too! Still does. Never will go away for me because i was taught in a very strict LDS home also. but this isn’t your mothers marriage or anyone elses. It is YOURS. You now have a lot to think about that they probably didn’t. Then learning to deal is another new game your family memebers probably don’t have to deal with either.One of the things I loved about us was our common belief and now it is not there.
I do understand that one. I think however that if the 2 of you talked–you would find more commonality than you think and his heart hasn’t totally left the things he believes and/orbelieved!(we both have an alcoholic grandparent that have passed away- an argument that I’ve tried with him, but he says he’s responsible
that is what my husband said too and we have seen it rear it’s ugly a few times (a few too many in my opinion) in our marriage, he can’t rationally say something like that.and not going in that direction)
i am so sorry that you are going thru this. it is a very difficult thing. I will pray for you and your husband if that is ok? I wish for your experience to be short lived in that he would come to reality quickly.I appreciate all your thoughtful posts and discussions. You all will never know how much they help…
roma, you are in a place that is very close to home for my TBM DW and myself. She would normally not participate in a forum. But your post reminded me so much of our situation … I have asked her if she would like to respond …
please check back
Oh I see, a humorless crowd (or a bad joke). Some very good points made here. It is a very interesting topic, especially when you consider that when the Saints first hit Utah they were assigned to a political party, with the whole idea of making sure it was 50/50. This was because of previous persecution based on politics/economics when the Mormon’s dominated areas they moved into.
Part of this was also to please the feds as they worked for Statehood.
Another possibility that may have influenced the shift was the “McCarthyism” of the 50’s. I assume that conservatism was one of the furthest possible safe stances from the witch hunts of the time.
I suppose in some areas … However, I have a beautiful 2 year old grandson who is 50% Japanese. He lives at my home right now (son in school) … tub time is lots of fun … and the yellowest little thing you have ever seen.
In other words, Japanese and Chinese are pretty far north. Not sure their color can be attributed to sun.
LaLaLove, Good points. Somewhere along the line a simple good idea, not by way of commandment, has turned into the 1st tenet of salvation, with a required shunning of violators limited from stoning only because of current civil laws.
It has turned into this knee-jerk rejection/repulsion syndrome that would likely make for a great psychology masters thesis.
As Tevye would say “On the other hand”, if the Jews have to be cursed (umm I mean blessed) with the food laws of Moses’ time, why should the Mormons get off easy?
My wife will quickly slip in from time to time to see what I’m reading/listening to. I think that she is somewhat hopeful that I have at least come back to some reading of things Mormon. Of course it hurts her when I’m on the abrasive Mormon sites, and she quickly leaves, unwilling to have any part of it. However, the other night she sat here and listened to the whole of John’s recent interview with Mormon Expressions … not saying a word, playing like she was busy on her computer.
I knew this was something that would give her a new found hope of me going back. The mere fact that she sat and listened to the whole of it was unusual for her.
The next day I said something to her about wondering if I could go back, under the circumstances she had heard from John. She got all excited and the following burst out;
“You can NOT go back and say anything!”
The uncontrolled response surprised her as much as me … we laughed.
This, obviously is one of the topics which I need to consume, ponder and gain some control over before considering dropping back in.
My wife and I did a “Social Services Mission” for about a year. It was the Church’s version of the 12 step program. We held weekly meetings in our local Jail and one in our Stake Center. It might surprise you to know how many members are abusing subscription drugs. In all cases that I was personally involved with, they started with legitimate uses and escalated. If I were to rate the most devastating I experienced:
1. Meth addicts
2. Presecription addicts
3. Alcohol addicts
A long time friend, whose wife struggled with this finally lost his dear wife to this affliction just in the last year or so. I believe she was about 38. They were always faithful in callings and held Temple recommends, few knew of the seriousness of her addiction.
Notes to self from MadamCurie: 1. I might need to actually commit, says the little guy on my right shoulder, but your free Sundays are so sweet says the little guy on my left.
2. It’s likely best to “head for the bathroom” verses tempting myself with “sharing”.
3. The idea of being comfortable and less angry is appealing and seems remotely plausible.
4. Continue to monitor Mrs. Curie’s experience!
MisterCurie: I made a comment in the Temple thread, which I expected would have excited a few.
“Maybe the Temple ceremony is not as Christ centered as we might want to believe.”
The contrast I’m pointing out here is along the same lines.
There is the Alma chapter 13 type of High Priest which we might be inclined to seek after (Patriarchal Holy Order King and Priest, miracle/power based on Calling and Election faith).
And then there is the meek and mild Elder who’s only desire is to obtain to a level of Christ like charity.
Throughout my previous quest … I had a very blind eye to the lowely Elder.
For me, any new quest would be for a goal that is opposite my personality and previous experience … a kinder/gentler faith, with charity being the sustaining factor for the hope.
edit:
Poor Nick … really I feel for him
