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The Book of Phillip in the Nag Hamadi implies that he may have been married. “And the companion of the […] Mary Magdalene. [… loved] her more than [all] the disciples [and used to] kiss her [often] on her […]”
nibbler wrote:Benefit of the doubt… perhaps he phrased his statements in an odd way because all temples are currently closed indefinitely?
It was more like he never expected us to achieve that. I wish I could remember the words he selected.
Quote:
Hey, some members lack tact. I remember one home teaching companion I had… once we visited an inactive member and before we did any ‘get to know you’ chit-chat my home teaching companion immediately launched into grilling the person over why they weren’t coming to church.
Heaven knows I lack tact. I’ve never been diagnosed, but if I’m not a high-functioning aspie (asperger’s) then I sure do a good imitation of one and my EQ is in the gutter. But this guy went way beyond anything I could have imagined. I’d say I wish I had recorded it, but in truth I’m glad I didn’t because it would eat at me even worse if I listened to it again.They’re an odd couple. I’m sure that applies to us as well. This other couple has about a 20 year age difference, with the wife being older. She’s from El Salvador and came here with a different husband, then later married the husband we know. Years ago, not sure if either of them were members yet, he was busted for trying to grow a small pot plant and got busted. Because she lived there, they tagged her for deportation for a criminal offense and they have been fighting it ever since. They’re part of the small empty-nester group that gets together from our ward.
Man alive, I could be in deep water over the whole failure in the home. I had a divorce about the time my oldest was 18 and my youngest (I have 4 kids) was about 11. I don’t feel like I had much choice with the divorce. My ex had recently announced that, after nearly 20 years and fou kids, that she never really preferred men, then descended to claiming that I had made her lesbian. It was ugly and not the sort of problem that’s likely to be sorted out in counseling, though we did try that a few times over the years. I held a standard that my problems with her were my problems, not the kids, and felt it would be to their advantage to have a positive relationship with their mother if possible. She didn’t and engaged in a boatload of toxic propaganda against me with the kids. Long story short, today I don’t think any of them speak to their mother. I have a good relationship with my oldest son, but that’s it. I have messaged with my oldest daughter on facebook a handful of times over the past few years, but even that’s strained badly, but the younger two kids have blocked me entirely. I won’t claim I didn’t make mistakes, but I don’t feel I deserved to be cut off to this extent. Am I the only one who finds it fascinating that at this point in time, during this virus pandemic, we have a medical doctor as the prophet? I was just thinking about that tonight as I sit here binging on Netflix. DarkJedi wrote:No question, almost all American and Canadian missionaries are coming home from foreign countries. It is a huge undertaking because not only are they coming home, many of them will be reassigned to complete their missions here while other will be released early. Non-native missionaries in many other areas are also returning to their home countries. I’m sure it’s a logistical nightmare.
When the senior missionary couple next door left this week, the mission president decided to hold onto the rental house where they were living. I know a major reason was because a large number of missionaries are returning to finish their mission in the U.S. and he might need the housing. It’s a nice 4-bedroom house and they could put up 8 missionaries in that one house if needed. Things are in flux enough that he didn’t want to risk being caught without a place to house any missionaries that might be sent to his mission in the coming weeks.
One thing I hope changes is the practice, at least around here, of not using any cleaning chemicals when the church is cleaned. I have volunteered to help clean in the past and was always a little horrified they never sanitized the door handles or anything. The senior missionary couple that lived in a rental house next door was sent home today. They had planned to be here through September. From what I’ve heard the mission is hanging onto the rental for the moment to perhaps place some other missionaries there, but I’m not holding my breath.
It’s more than just the virus. We’ve heard about (or felt) significant earthquakes in recent weeks, and locusts are ravaging eastern Africa. Antying else I’ve missed? nibbler wrote:
however, no one is authorized to administer the sacrament.
I have to admit I am disappointed by that.
I received a message from my bishop that they’re looking to organize small sacrament meetings to be held in members homes. Is this happening elsewhere? Who thinks this is a good idea? Like I said earlier in this thread, I have only heard of one case where a couple was sealed when they weren’t married in this life. We watched a movie a year or so ago about one of the handcart companies that had a lot of trials on their journey. I can’t recall the name of the film or which company it was. The couple had agreed to wait until they arrived in Utah to get married for some reason, but the man died during the trip. At the end of the movie it said that much later, I think in the 1990’s, one of the general authorities heard about the story and approved them being sealed together. I’d be happy to put things in writing to request we be sealed, but I’m not sure who to give that to. In the wake of a messy divorce, I don’t have a good relationship with most of my kids and the one I do get along with is no longer interested at all in the church. I learned the hard way that just because I refuse to bad-mouth my ex to the kids, it doesn’t mean my ex will do the same thing. From what I’ve heard, she had no filter when it came to running me down to the kids and it obviously had an effect. I thought it was interesting that one of my aunts brought up having us sealed after we are gone, a couple of months ago. I had never discussed it with her, but she knows our situation. The thing is, she’s in her 80s and not in the best of health, so I am skeptical she’ll be around or in shape to follow through with that. I guess I could still leave a document with her and hope that at least one of her kids, my cousins, would pursue it. I certainly can’t rely on my bishop, from his attitude on the subject I believe he would firmly object. I do know my home teacher/minister (I still don’t have the terminology down since they changed it) and one other friend in the ward who might assist with something like that. MJ is the only member in her family and to some extent they’ve generally been anti.
Like you, I have to believe the Heavenly Father has compassion and leniency with how he sort out some of the messy situations we see here on earth, such as to whom my father can be sealed since he couldn’t with my mother, or for that matter anyone who doesn’t marry at all.
There mightbe an interesting development going on this week. MJ’s daughter (27 y/o) was assaulted by her boyfriend. Since then MJ’s “ex” has been staying at her apartment. There’s a possibility that he might not really live here again, but I’m not holding my breath yet. DarkJedi wrote:
Sometimes I’m a little blunt, and sometimes I think things just need saying. I do disagree with your bishop although as someone already pointed out more than 99% of the time two people of the opposite sex living together are doing the do. But that’s not the only thing keeping you from going to the temple. There are other issues as well, including motivation. You’re not even motivated to going to Sunday meetings, what would your motivation be for going to the temple when marriage isn’t even actually on the table? Off the top of my head in addition to chastity concerns (even though that may not be a real concern) you haven’t been attending church (which is one of the questions) and it’s pretty unlikely you’re paying tithing (another biggie). This isn’t about your bishop or the temple – it’s about you. What do you really want other than what you can’t have?
I don’t mind you bluntness and there’s some truth is what you say. I know good and well what people assume about our living situation. I imagine I’d probably be inclined to do the same if I wasn’t in the middle of it. All I can say is that I know the truth of the situation. Given my medical situation, with damaged nerves (the ones that make erections possible) from my surgery at the beginning of our relationship, the radiation treatments that caused more damage there, or the hormone blocker injections for the past nine years, sex is firmly out of the picture.As for tithing, this is likely to be an area where some will disagree with me. My only income is SSDI, which are benefits I receive from contributions I made for many years from income on which I paid tithing. If I live a sufficient number of years I may exceed my contributions someday, but in the meantime I feel the modest benefit I receive is from money on which I have already tithed. I have made it a matter of prayer and study and I”m comfortable with my decision. I know I am not the only one who has reached this decision.
Last year I attended church more often than not. The past couple of weeks I haven’t been there, but that has had more to do with how well I felt, or not, than anything else. I freely admit I feel pretty discouraged at times about not being able to fully participate in the church and receive it’s blessings. It feels like I’ve practically been disfellowshipped, other than being able to take sacrament. Since I have stopped working I’ve spent a lot of time working on genealogy which I enjoy, but it also drills home the fact that it’s likely I’ll never be able to go to the temple again to do their work. For starters, my father had a short marriage during WW2 and I’d like to have him sealed to his former wife, especially since he can’t be sealed to my mother. There are a number of others I’d really like to do myself if I can.
Perhaps my issues could go away with a different bishop, or maybe not, but there’s no telling whether or not I’ll still be around. Well, not all of my issues at church. There will still be judgemental attitudes from some of the other members. As a footnote, I know others are in similar situations. For example, a couple of years ago MJ said another woman in Relief Society admitted her ex was in need of help and moved in with her and her husband.
Roy wrote:
Fascinating. What brought me here was the stillbirth of our third child. I had thought that my children would be blessed protected because of my faithful dedication to the church. I also discovered that it is unknown whether my child counts as a soul (united spirit and body), if she will be resurrected and if she will be part of our family. No ordinances are done, nor church records kept for stillborn children.Anyway, I found myself in a situation where, since the church had no defined position on stillborns, I was able to decide for myself what should happen. No covenantal “binding of the Lord”, no priesthood power and promises, just what I feel is right in my heart.
My younger sister was born with Down syndrome and physical limitations from a damaged heart and lungs. I was told she didn’t have to be baptized and just accepted that. In my ward now there’s a young man (maybe around 30?) who must have been baptized because I know he goes on temple trips to do baptisms. I admit I don’t have any idea about formal policy on this sort of thing.Quote:This can be really scary but also freeing. I have an eternal family because I decided that I have an eternal family. I don’t know what form that will take but I am comfortable trusting in a loving HF – leaving tomorrow for tomorrow and focusing on showing love for my family today.
That is all well and good but we also live in a society where what other people think matters. Having a marriage certificate matters in this context. I am sorry for the difficulty with your ward and the feelings of being judged that you are experiencing. I think that I would weigh the benefits that I am currently receiving from attending the ward and contrast that with the stress and effort – a cost/benefit analysis. If the costs are too high then maybe it might be time for a break. It sounds like this situation may not be permanent. You could just take a break until the situation changes. You might also try visiting other churches if the desire to have a weekly worship service is important to you.
Even if you decide to keep attending the LDS ward- just knowing that it is your choice can be liberating. You are not forced to go to church with these people. You are a free agent!
Marriage is a bigger deal for me than for MJ. She just has more faith that it will all work out or something else, but when I’ve asked her if she’ll marry me she generally responds “I hope to be able to one day.” I want to be married to her because I value her more than anyone I’ve been with and I can’t imagine not being with her as my companion for eternity. I also hate not simply being able to legitimately call her my wife.DarkJedi wrote:
I have faith/hope all the sealing stuff will work out in the end, but I also see it a little differently than most members do. That part is difficult to explain, so I just leave it at the hope it all works out. I don’t have anything to add to the marriage/sealing part because even if you were allowed to be sealed it’s not really the plan today.Motivation to go to church can be hard. Psychologically speaking everything we do we do because we are motivated to do so, either intrinsically or extrinsically (but mostly intrinsically). I’m not a psychologist or therapist and I didn’t even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night so that is my basic understanding of the idea of motivation. Lots of people here struggle with motivation to go to church, including me. I am usually not engaged nor fulfilled by the experience and only on occasion am I uplifted (although I do find some meaning in the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper). I have few real social connections at church, although there are people there I talk to and sometimes even talk to outside church (very few of the latter) and I have come to consider the ward my “tribe” (although I’m on the fringe of said tribe). I do partly go to placate/appease my wife, but that was not always the case. I don’t believe the “truth claims” of the church and I can see how our worship services could be improved to be more meaningful but I still like, or at least don’t adamantly dislike, the way our meetings work (especially since it went to 2 hours). Long story short and speaking from the experience of having been away for 10+ years and having returned, the motivation has to be yours and may not be obvious to you or anyone else.
I can really relate to most of what you said. I think you did a good job of spelling it all out. Heaven knows I’ve gone to church for various “wrong” reasons at times, from knowing I’ll have to ask the bishop for financial assistance, to being worried about making some sort of impression by simply showing up. Even though I’m not in an area where many of my neighbors are members, we have an older missionary couple who lives next door in a rental house and I admit to feeling a little self-conscious if I don’t attend just because of worry about them being judgemental. And yes, they can do that sort of thing.I’ve had a variable relationship with the church. When I was a teenager, I was often the quorum leader and active helping organize stake youth activities. That changed when I went on my mission. It took nearly 3/4 of my mission before I was made a senior companion. Eventually it got me pretty discouraged and I contacted the mission president to ask if there was some reason for that. He said he hadn’t realized my situation and there wasn’t any particular reason I was still a junior. I finally became a senior companion for a few months, then a “joint” companion for the last month or two with another elder who was going home at the same time as me. Then when I got married and started a family, I was assigned to the nursery. Over the net ten years, when with moves or changing boundaries I was in about six different wards or branches, I was constantly assigned to the nursery almost as soon as I got into the ward. It was challenging because I never had a chance to get to know anyone. I could attend every Sunday and be in a ward for a couple of years, and still have people come up to me before church and ask if I was visiting because most members never saw me and I didn’t get out of the nursery after church until most of them were gone. After that, for other reasons as well, my activity level dropped and I didn’t go at all for a few years. After I split with my ex and got to know MJ as she was becoming a member I attended much more for several years, but now I’m pulling back again.
