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SilentDawning wrote:Old-Timer wrote:
I don’t think anyone here will scoff. We’re not into that. If someone does, I’ll deliver a cyber-slap upside their heads.
😈 I second the “emotion”.
This is totally inappropriate, even “in jest”, and I am calling you out for it. The culture of violence is wrong. The culture of authoritarianism is wrong. It has no place in an enlightened society large or small.
I think you are taking the path of the Master. I think that the Master is always a great scientist. Many believing Latter-day Saints have periods of lesser activity or of complete inactivity. Surely your intentional wandering is no less honorable than that.
Maybe your spiritual needs at this time are different than the sort of reading and praying you have in mind. Maybe you are due for a bit of spiritual musical chairs. Maybe spiritual scrambled eggs. I think it’s safe with spirituality to say you have no idea what tomorrow looks like. If you knew, you would be living that way today.
I’m not sure you are asking for ideas, but in case you are, here are some. Do any of these appeal to you as possible spiritual leads?
[list][*]Journaling (your first scientific tool)[*]Lucid Dreaming[*]Astral Projection[*]Meditation[*]Menial service[*]Extended fasting[*]Shamanism[*]Religions[*]Religious texts (Bhagavad Gita, Tao Te Ching, Upanishads)[*]Modern spiritual texts (Tolle, Walsch, A Course in Miracles)[*]Modern spiritual Teachers (Adyashanti, Mooji, Dalai Lama, Jon Kabbat-Zin, Deepak Chopra)[*]American Transcendentalism (Thoreau, Emerson)[*]Walks/hikes/wilderness biking[*]Child care[*]Elderly care[*]Gardening[/list] What John said, parsed literally, may very well be true. Except that as you all have said, it’s really hard to define Middle Way. Assuming he’s saying less than 50% are able to maintain their membership, their temple recommend, and their activity, that may well be accurate. Less than 50% of faith changed Mormons is still a large number who may end up staying. As for me, nobody has to admit me for me to stay. I simply have to decide to stay, whatever that means. I am a Mormon Boy.
Heber13 may be on to something. These boys likely have lived with adult hypocrisy, dishonesty, inconsistency, manipulation, and selfishness. A bit of honesty (vulnerability) and open questions might go a long way. “No way! An honest adult!” Part of the power of the Heavenly Mother question may have been that you honestly weren’t trying to manipulate them with the question. You were willing to hear whatever they thought. If I asked them, “What do you think of church?” it could be equally as stimulating as long as my listening was open.
In general, I really like Heber13’s suggestions (and his prediction).
Cadence, in watching this thread, I have wondered if maybe there is a shared body of information that Ray, Brian, and Heber13 are drawing from that you are missing. So I went to the http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=313 The Power of Myth, Joseph Campbell and Bill MoyersI remember when Heber13 first came to StayLDS. I’m probably remembering totally wrong, but this is my myth, so bear with me. It was startling how suddenly his perspective changed when he immersed himself in Campbell after what seemed like only days here. To me, it seemed like a overnight and, frankly, unsustainable shift. But it appears to have been
deep and abiding for Heber13curt wrote:As I have read all of the posts on this particular thread I just don’t understand how anyone, who has studied the issues, remains a member any longer. I just can’t get it. Save it is like belonging to the American Legion or something. Sorry.
I guess some people like belonging to the American Legion, and others like belonging to a church. Emotionally, for me to make a statement like this is a HUGE deal. But really, if we can ever forgive the past and all the people who led us (for their own selfish or innocent purposes) to believe it was a big deal, then it isn’t a big deal how or whether we choose to be Mormon or LDS. Like my signature line says, “Sure, any religion would do. But I’m LDS.” If you see some reason to call yourself a Mormon or to help out with the local ward, go ahead and do it. If not, then step back.
Brian is right. He was channeling Jesus. “If they say to you that Christ is here or Christ is there, don’t follow them. The kingdom of heaven is not coming with signs and observations. Here’s the real truth: The Kingdom of God is right here right now.”
By the way, last Sunday I went with my two sons for the first time in months to the Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Chandler. The theme was “War: what is it good for?” Afterward, we all felt like, “That was my kind of church!”
Yes, Heber13, it is “our” church. That includes me, and it includes all the Latter-day Saints, and it includes God. mercyngrace wrote:On the other hand, what should they say to discourage the repeating of these FPRs that wouldn’t sound as if it diminished the spiritual experiences they have had?
Well said. It’s not as easy as we sometimes assume. And spirituality isn’t as easily communicated as your breakfast menu. About the best that can be hoped for is that some brave soul will emphasis the spiritual equality that exists between the apostles and the other saints (and all humankind). “I know, as do many of you, that Jesus Christ lives.” “I bear my special witness, as do thousands of children of God today, that…”
I think once you’ve discovered that history isn’t really reliable, you begin to look at it merely as a gift from the past. When I read the Tao Te Ching or the Bhagavad Gita or the inscriptions of Ashoka in India, I marvel that they exist rather than caring how they exist or who made them. Same with the Sermon on the Mount. And this explains also how I view the Book of Mormon. Whether I am impressed or not with any given passage of the Book of Mormon has nothing to do with any supposed authority that comes from any question of whether it was written thousands of years ago or hundreds of years ago. The sole matter of value as far as I am concerned is whether the passage in question agrees with the master teachings of today and yesterday, of here and there. Does it agree with the Sermon on the Mount, with the Tao Te Ching, with the Bhagavad Gita, with oldest Buddhism, with Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, and Mooji, and with the happiest moments of our own lives?
True, Ray. Baptism for the dead is the underpinning of the great LDS near-universalist view of humanity. SamBee wrote:Hmm. Not sure. Did he start that, or is it like Christianity, a retrofit on his teachings? I tend to think Jesus didn’t start a church either. It seems he just did the Jewish thing.
I like what Brian said. Swedenborg is Swedenborg, Smith is Smith, and you are you. The full experience involves riding on more than one ride. I wasn’t sure whether to vote 3 or 4. I voted 4, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think we are all prophets of God. I just liked the idea that the revelations are all meaningful for enlightenment. I definitely don’t consider Swedenborg a lesser prophet than Joseph Smith. After all, as has been said, one thing he has going for him is he didn’t start a church.
😆
