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[attachment=0]Mindy Little.jpg[/attachment]

Mindy was the sweetest dog you could ever meet. She felt things very deeply. I had come from 5 years of the pain of being completely alone, to having her always with me. She (like most pets) loved deeply and unconditionally. And joyful! She was joyful. Among my favorite moments are the times I have returned home from work or errands; she would see me from afar, perk up, cry, and galumph across the yard to get to me, licking my nose. She was so affectionate. She loved hugs, and would ask for them many times a day. But she was also playful! She would buck and woof, nip your nose, get down on her front legs with her butt in the air, and bolt around the house, waiting for you to “get” her again. She always knew it was 4 pm–her dinnertime. She would whine, and woof, and jump on you to get up and feed her.

My little moo-moo girl. She promised she’d wait for me at the Rainbow Bridge.

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I’m out. I can no longer trust the Brethren. Period. I have to protect myself.

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I like Fowler’s model of spiritual development–however, it is just that, a model. It is an approximation an simplification of reality, which is definitely more complex.

I think I’m in Stage 4. I strive for 5, but I’m still working on the tasks of Stage 4. As I understand it, the tasks are:

1-Movement of moral authority from outside oneself (e.g. the Brethren) to inside, in other words the development of an individual moral compass.

2-Individualization of spiritual journey. We lose belief in churches as the only way to spirituality, and begin to build our own path, which may or may not involve aspects of our former faith.

3-Demythologization. Literal belief goes out the window as we begin to “break” the symbols in our faith. This is a painful task, as it involves the loss of the “magic” of belief. But you can’t really go backwards once you’ve broken your symbols. You must either reject them, or allow them to bloom again in Stage 5. All of this is very alarming to our loved ones who are happy living in Stage 3. They just don’t understand because in a way, they can’t understand. So they see our growth as heresy and apostasy.

The loss of one’s former faith and community begins a grieving process, which can involve denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. I am still angry. I think my anger is healthy, though, because it is driving me to draw appropriate boundaries for myself, which I previously didn’t have with the Church or with others. It may take a long time to disentangle myself the influence of the Brethren. My symbols are completely broken, and I have definitely demythologized all of it. I used to be in a hurry to grow into the next phase, but that has changed. I’m willing to give myself space for the grieving process. Fowler said it could take up to seven years to complete Stage 4, and I am only about four years in. But I catch glimpses of the beauty of Stage 5, and I may soon begin to lay the foundation for it, and for the “second innocence” it entails.

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IMO it isn’t celibacy that is the biggest issue. It’s lack of intimacy, isolation, ostracization, loneliness, and having no companionship or family.

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DarkJedi wrote:

While I don’t particularly like that all the church has to say is “sorry,” I do like that this was addressed in the church newspaper. I was further impressed that it is a fairly lengthy and in-depth article that gave some attention to some people who could be considered somewhat dissident or at least outsiders.

I agree DJ. It’s a nice start. If they think they have “reproved” LGBT folks with sharpness, where is the increase in love? We have no choice but to esteem them our enemies. They need to get going on this.

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It’s simply an impossible situation. How many of us have the empathy to say we would forego companionship for life? None of those who have placed this requirement on our gay brothers and sisters are willing to do that. Some who have put this policy in place couldn’t even resist the temptation to be sealed to two wives despite other policies preventing women from being sealed to more than one husband.

You’re right, HG. That lack of empathy, that unfeeling brushoff, that complete unwillingness to put themselves in my shoes and think about the theological implications, that demand for me to make an Abrahamic sacrifice while they sit on their a$$#$ surrounded by their loving families, meanwhile I go home to an empty apartment to warm up another frozen burrito and hope that something on TV will occupy my attention until I have to go to bed and get back up the next day to do it all again…that is what fuels my resentment of the leaders of the Church. That is what lead me to a suicide crisis two years ago. That lack of hope. They just don’t get it. Screw ’em.

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I like the idea of loving your husband and making sure he feels that you love him and you aren’t going anywhere.

I like the idea of setting boundaries with family. Why should you be a doormat? Something in current Mormonism encourages passive aggression, tattling to authorities, and going behind people’s backs rather than directly addressing issues with the person involved. Is it possible for you to have a conversation with MIL and ask her to come directly to you if she has an issue with something you’ve said and done, rather than tattling to your husband?

I know it’s easier said than done.

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To all, thank you. If you were my ward, I could come back to church. But you aren’t, and I can’t. And it makes me very sad but resigned to find spiritual nourishment where I can. But not as a Latter-Day Saint.

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I’m sure Ardis has her struggles like everyone else. But when I read of her desire to not be out in the cold, I find it convenient for her that she happens to be a heterosexual. Otherwise, the choice would be a lot harder for her, I’m sure.

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I don’t want to say it was peace, but maybe it was. But I felt something that said I was okay. That I was going to be okay. It wasn’t a confirmation that I need to stay in this Church that I need to leave or anything like that. It wasn’t telling me which way to go, I just felt like things would be alright. Not to say that I won’t experience pain in the future regarding this—I know it’s coming. But something felt like, “University, things are as they should be” for my life and choices.

I think what you’re describing is peace. Or serenity. Or acceptance. Or whatever you want to call it. It’s one of the best feelings in life.

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I think I can understand his position, as I was right where he is about twenty years ago. I was undergoing reparative therapy (by my own choice) and there was talk of outlawing such therapy. I felt very much attacked–I really believed that God would change me, and that I should have access to such therapy if I wanted it.

Now I’m thrilled that reparative therapy is being made illegal for underaged folks. It doesn’t work. It offers false hope and promises. I would be a much healthier person if I had accepted myself back then.

I think his post gets to one of the big problems with all of this hullabaloo–people feel that lines must be drawn, and that standing for your particular position on SSM is more important than the many people who are caught in between–especially LGBT Mormons. I wish there were more of a concern for the people who are really affected by all of this.

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Two words: Mormon Eschatology.

Where I grew up, there was kind of the attitude that we can trash the planet because Jesus will just wave his magic wand and the Earth will be turned into paradise at the Second Coming.

I no longer live in the Salt Lake Valley, thank goodness. Every year the air is worse. And there is just so much resistance on doing something about it. I no longer have to breathe that stuff.

One thing I learned in Boulder was recycling. I was happy it rubbed off on me.

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My heart is broken over our human-ness.

I have felt a profound sadness over my realization that full church activity is no longer possible for me. It’s about where the church is right now, and I am right now. It’s just, sad, and well…human.

I have hope in a time and place when Zion won’t be hindered by our humanness. I think that as long as we’re all human, there will be seasons when the tent just isn’t big enough for all of us. But our love for each other can keep us warm while we’re temporarily put out in the cold. Friendship and love matter! I believe these relationships will be the only thing we take with us to the beyond…

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I think cwald used the right imagery–JD threw down the gauntlet, whether intentionally or out of naivete. I do not envy Pres King’s position. JD will probably be excommunicated.

I benefitted greatly from mormon stories. But I have to admit that the result of his podcasts was my withdrawal from the church. The church is in an awful position. The freedom of information the internet brought has made any kind of control over the unsavory aspects of the church’s history impossible. JDs efforts have placed hours and hours of discussion and interpretation of these issues in cyberspace, able to be retrieved by anyone in crisis. From a strategic standpoint, the church has to discredit Dehlin. As an excommunicant, Dehlin’s work will be immediately off limits to members who will not break the taboos on “anti-mormon internet materials.” Mormon Stories is the “printing press” E Holland advised JD not to purchase.

I think the average questioner is safe from the level of scrutiny JD has brought upon himself (barring a bad round of priesthood roulette). Whether his excommunication would make the tent a smaller place or not, who knows?

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Welcome Jorsen.

I second the idea of compartmentalizing the different parts of you current mess, so that they don’t get mixed up in the deliberations and choices you’ll have to make in the next little while.

I am currently a hopeful agnostic/deist. But I recognize a real spiritual component in my reality. Are you spiritual as well as atheist? Does a Mormon sacrament meeting fill you spiritually? Do you value the comraderie there in the Church? Keep going if it helps bring you peace.

I’ve been reading Carl Sagan lately, and I have come to find his approach to the universe helpful to me. He seems to be skeptical but agnostic about God. But he has this real hope for mankind that appeals to me. I think there is (or should be) room for Atheist or Agnostic Mormons to participate in the blessing of all mankind along with all of our brothers and sisters in the Church. Keep us posted.

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