Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Many Thanks to those who have been kind and candid and supportive of my journey. I will continue to check in from time to time and wish you all the best on your own individual journeys. “As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world – that is the myth of the atomic age – as in being able to remake ourselves.”-
– Gandhi
Hi Hawkgrrrl, This article has been removed from it’s original source. I can only find remnants now.
‘DISCIPLINE FOR “ORDAIN WOMEN” CAME FROM HIGH LEVEL LDS LEADERS
Discipline For “Ordain Women” Came From High Level LDS Leaders
Sources say that on May 17 Elder M. Russell Ballard and Elder Whitney Clayton, were in the area for a training meeting. During that meeting, the local church leaders asked Elder Clayton what should be done about the Ordain Women group.
Clayton reportedly said that public advocacy of ordination is an act of apostasy.’
John Dehlin was also on the list, but they decided to wait.
I don’t think John wants to be ex-communicated. I think he wants closure. I think he is tired of constantly having to defend himself to the church. If given a choice between staying in the church and being harassed for his beliefs and excommunication, then I think he would pick excommunication. But mostly, I think he wants to be left alone.
I don’t know him personally, and cannot claim to love him. But I actively pray for him and his family at this painful time.
Thank you On Own Now:) I appreciate your words of wisdom. I came to staylds looking for a reason to stay, but my heart is not in it. The misogyny is driving me crazy. I think in my case it is best to make an exit. There are always things I will admire about the church, but I don’t want my daughter to grow up in a church that sees women as second rate and says that they honor them all in the same breath.
Begging your pardon, but if John Dehlin is not being casually dismissed by anyone— then why are people saying it is time to move on and it’s all on John now? John is not running for office. He is an American who understands his rights to freedom of speech and freedom of the press. He can “flip-flop” as many times as he likes. It’s a day to day thing for many of us who are experiencing a faith crisis.
Finding out that we have been lied to by the very people who demand explicit trust is hard on anyone. John has provided a forum of support, love and acceptance where there previously wasn’t one.
Not sure why Ray McGraw keeps mentioning the Stake President and Bishop, I surely didn’t. They have their marching orders and that is not their fault.
Hi GBSmith, I appreciate your candor and reply. However, I must respectfully disagree.
John already knows that the church is about to kick him to the curb. I think that would change anyone. This has to be a heartbreaking time for him and his family. He has helped many people stay in the church. He has offered a forum for support and acceptance that is unprecedented.
I would be remiss not to thank him for his work. And I don’t think he should be so casually dismissed at staylds.com. “Time to move on” seems a bit brutal.
From his “Why I stay” talk…
“And so I just can’t stay quiet about the difficult aspects of Mormonism –if it means writing all of these people off as necessary casualties for the cause. If a loving God is at the head of this church, then there has to be a way for Mormonism to generate less casualties in its wake.”
Dear Faithful Skeptic, Mormon Mental Health has a list of referred providers that are aware and supportive of faith crisis issues.
http://www.mormonmentalhealthassoc.org/clinical-providers Natasha Parker also has counseling sessions via Skype.
Please don’t feel alone, there are lots of excellent LDS leaders who are experiencing the same thing. If you haven’t read “Why I stay” by John Dehlin, I recommend it, it was a big help to me.
Many Prayers coming your way brother.
Lds Scoutmaster – I appreciate your bringing this message board back to it’s original intent. Which was to discuss John Dehlin’s probable excommunication. John’s talk “Why I stay” given at the Sunstone conference is the reason I am staying in this church. If they excommunicate him, which is highly likely, then I will be making an exit as well. Because if they don’t want him, then they don’t want me either.
I have noticed that the Savior was kind, and loving and accepting and forgiving to everyone except the Pharisees. The Savior had zero tolerance for their hypocrisy. He was a radical who pissed off his local church leaders something fierce.
I realize that John is not the Savior of the world, but he is a radical that has managed to piss off his church leaders. To the outside world, the Church leaders are looking very much like bullies. The church should be mature and confident enough to handle a little criticism, but clearly they aren’t.
30 years from now, John Dehlin’s work will most likely be recognized as healing and authentic. Not sure if that is what will happen for the church.
With some sadness, I am starting to realize that the church is deeply engrained in the cycle of abuse. That is why KK was excommunicated, it explains September 6, and also explains that while the Freedom of speech and Freedom of the press might be important to the church, they do not allow the same freedoms for their members.
Thank you for sharing this. I had decided to go to the temple one more time for a friend’s name, and then I was going to walk away and leave it at that. The dreaded temple interview is something I am not willing to do. But it opened my mind to the possibility that I might want a temple recommend enough to do the interview in the future.
I will try to be smart like you and let the other guy do the talking. It seems to me that he might have been looking for support, but you never know.
Hello Church 0333, Thanks for your welcome and insight. I think it will be interesting to see the changes as they come about too.
When I first heard about KK, it was in a religion class and BYU-Idaho. They way he referred to her made it sound like she was laying her hands on other people’s heads and ordaining them with the priesthood.
Then my son started talking about how much agreed with her and so I checked out her website. I can’t see that she did anything wrong.
I saw somewhere on the forum a quote that said “The local leadership did more damage to the church than KK and John Dehlin combined.”
I would go so far as to say that I am still semi-active in the church because of KK and John Dehlin. If it was left up to local leadership I would have made my exit already.
Hi Hawkgrrrl, Thank you for the suggestion:) I will do that. I think your suggestion of Human and Divine it brilliant, it simplifies things.
Luckily my first 11 years of life were not in the church. So I was never completely orthodox, especially now.
I actually found the church via my first foster home. Both of my parents were addicts. As you can imagine, coming to a nice “stable” foster home after dealing with addicts and domestic violence was a slice of heaven.
Awesome! I write music too. I am not half as educated and having practically killed myself to get a Bachelor’s, don’t foresee graduate school. But I do love to learn, and I love the way you describe how you learn.
Looking forward to getting to know you better.
Hi Ray, I love your quote. “I have to grant them the same privilege, even when what they cherish doesn’t match what I cherish (and, in some cases, even when I really dislike something they cherish).”
I could picture the times we have all bristled in church as someone was “cherishing” something that was revolting to us.
I think it will bring a smile next time this happens in church.
Silent Dawning, I love your screen name. I can’t help but wonder if you are an artist. I look forward to posting my ideas on other threads of the forum as you suggested.
Hi Dark Jedi, It is nice to meet you. I made the chart this morning and then just made a screenshot and put it on the forum. Please feel free to make a screenshot if you wish. I have no intentions of publishing it beyond this forum for now.
Thanks,
Two lamps
Hi Ray, Thanks for your input. And I think you are right. It can vary widely from Sunday to Sunday, let alone from ward to ward. Basically I never know what will happen on Sunday. I find that “the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture are all over the place within the LDS culture.
So, in an effort to simplify, I have decided that if it helps me feel faith, hope or charity then I will cherish it, and if it discourages and stresses me out, then I will discard it.
Hi Cadence, I agree, what could Kate have done differently? I have no idea. Her own husband was equally involved and supported her throughout the entire process, they didn’t ex-communicate him.
The local leadership made a mistake. BIG mistake.
So now we have a huge mess to clean-up with Pres. Monson having dementia and Boyd K Packer being one of the most hard-nosed general authorities ever.
Does it even help to send letters in Kate’s defense? Because I would willingly take the time to write one if I thought it would help.
