[university]

Roy wrote:

I wonder if there are occurrences of female genital mutilation among the saints in Africa. I assume that there aren’t any as RMN would probably want to put a halt to that post haste.

Interesting thought. I would hope they’d address that, too.

SamBee wrote:

It tends to be non-Christians, notably Muslims who do that and since most LDS converts come from Christian backgrounds…

It’s more common amongst Muslims but Christians in some countries practice it. In 2013, Ethiopia had a 75% female genital mutilation rate with 63% of the country Christian. Eritrea was at 89% and is a majority Christian country.

[university]

SilentDawning wrote:

Doctor told me some people’s brains are more sensitive to emotion, and mine is definitely. When I feel things, I really feel things. And they make a really strong memory….I wish I didn’t have that characteristic — it serves no good purpose I can see. It creates long lasting memories that can be very powerful from a feeling perspective, even though the details are gone.

I share this characteristic. Because of this, I vividly remember details of abusive episodes during my childhood. I also remember slights and offenses that other people forget. Other times I just still feel the emotions even though the specifics are gone. I know it doesn’t seem like it does very much good, but recently a family member lamented to me that they don’t have a strong as a memory and wished they could recall the things I could. Just some perspective.

SilentDawning wrote:

I think getting away from these women would help. I find it hard when people are unrepentant after they have caused severe pain. Sure, gospel says I’m the worse sinner (which I don’t believe), but that is where my disposition leads me…and I can’t seem to shake it off.

Do not feel guilty. You are not the worse sinner. I’ve fought against this impulse, too. Now, I have finally gotten to the point where I can finally socialize with someone who abused me during my childhood and to this day is unapologetic about it. Would I ever allow them into my personal life? Nope. But time apart gave me space to process what took place and let go…as much as I can. I’m no longer afraid. They have no power over me. But you can bet years ago just seeing them made me physically scared. I think what you’re experiencing is natural and you shouldn’t feel bad about it. You were severely hurt by this woman. You may not remember all the details but your brain recognizes the emotional threat they are and is telling you to be weary. I think, in some ways, God gave us a body to work with us. This is your mind reminding you of a threat. Try not to feel guilty. I wish you the best with coming to terms with what happened. There is no time limit on when that will happen for you.

[university]

Most of these questions didn’t have my answer, either, and I didn’t like how they lumped in “I don’t know” with a lot of atheist-leaning answers for some questions. Never-the-less, this was fun. I was worried I wouldn’t score high for any religion. I was surprised with how high my percentages were, tbh. Here are some of my results:

Unitarian Universalism: 100%, Best Match

Liberal Quakerism: 98%

Liberal Christian Protestantism: 85%

Secular Humanism: 82%

Atheism: 53%

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints: 52%

Hinduism: 49%

Islam: 44%

Conservative Christian Protestant: 35%

[university]

Hi Beefster,

As a YSA who is now an inactive non-believer some of TBM theology, I thought I’d comment:

First of all, I feel like I’ve been in a similar place. There was a time when I realized that keeping my struggles to myself was stifling me and my intimate relationships with other people. From my perspective, I get the sense from your posts that not sharing your current thoughts and feelings about the Church are putting you in a similar place. I think you know best about this, and putting yourself in spaces, or opening up a little bit with people, will allow you to feel a little less stifled and grow spiritually, and better yet, help you find out what you want for your life right now (spiritually speaking). However, I will say what is kind of a motto with this site: go slow.

Like others on this thread, I strongly encourage you not to “come clean” with a letter or even try to full-on explain all the reasons you’re at where you’re at. Can I ask what you hope to get from this?

I know that it might feel empowering in theory–it sounds great to finally just lay out who you are and where you’re at and why—and it may even give you temporary relief–but there are long term consequences to this that will be overwhelmingly unhelpful. Besides what others have mentioned, you are inviting others to judge very personal and powerful aspects of your story. When you throw it all out there to a TBM, it’s likely you are hitting them with issues you have spent significant amount of time mulling over, when they might have ever thought of/heard of or are that bothered by. Additionally, these questions already have significant emotional meaning to you, when they don’t to others. This is a recipe for misunderstanding and clashing, imo.

If church participation is stressing you too much for you to handle, then disengage a little. This does not have to be all-or-nothing and just from my experience, I don’t think putting a timetable on when you have to decide if you’re leaving is going to help with the pressure you’re feeling right now. I think that ups the stakes and puts you under more pressure, especially when you’re backing away from living a very active life in the Church to leaving cold turkey.

Also, I’m just going to come out and say from my experience, I don’t know if it’s really possible to fully “leave” Mormonism if that’s how you’ve grown up. Even if you do ultimately decide to “leave” the Church, your family will be in it and you cannot completely cut off the Church’s influence in your life without cutting out them. It’s up to you to find the appropriate balance. It’s much different than the Church’s illustration that you are either in, out, or a fence-sitter, the reality is that it flows. There are so many different “activity” statuses that fit different belief systems in the Church. So please, don’t burn bridges. As always, I’m only speaking from my experience. You know your situation and yourself better than any of us do.

[university]

Hi Beefster,

I’ve actually taken a step away from this site and from the Church, although I do still lurk the boards. I wanted to drop in and write a response because I can hear a lot of what I went through in your posts. I joined this forum I was a YA in college, and it’s been a few years since I had my initial “faith crisis.” I joined this community sometime after, and it helped calm me and slow down, a lot. When I was starting to understand the terrifying reality that it was possible my frustrations with the Church might never resolve themselves, I was scared that my mom would find out about me. It had a freezing point on me, spiritually, as at one point, I was afraid that my growing disaffection would literally kill her. So I was dealing with a lot of stress and pressure. I was so terrified I couldn’t work through my own journey because my fears were always hanging over me.

It took time. I don’t regret going slow, both for me trying to make the Church work/coming to terms with my feelings, and for slowly showing that I wasn’t as TBM anymore (even though I kept things pretty close to the chest). It was the right thing for me and us. I remember one evening I almost spilled my guts to her, but I held back, and I’m glad I did. Even after I became more certain she’d survive my faith transition, or crisis, or whatever you’d want to call it, knowing the pain it would cause her and the strain it would put on our relationship still froze me, spiritually. I really love my mom, and I can sense the care you have for your parents, in your posts, as well.

I can’t say that I’m fully, 100% out in the open with her about things now. There wasn’t just one “coming out” moment for me and I’m glad I didn’t do it that way. But I will say, for me, eventually my mom and I got to a place in our relationship where I could be more transparent. Once I stopped living in secrecy, and near obsessing about my relationship with my mom and how my lack of orthodoxy would hurt her, I could grow. I literally felt the weight lift off me. Also, I can’t make any promises to you, but when she was ready, my mom really surprised me

I guess my point is, I’m not here to lead you away from the Church. You need to do what you ultimately want to choose for your life. However, I don’t think your parents is a good reason for you to continue to stay in a very frustrating situation. In my experience, it took me a lot of time, but I eventually had to move away from lettings fears associated with my mom prevent me from exploring my spirituality on my terms. I’m not trying to tell you what to do, but I think it would be a shame to live your life doing things that stifle you because of your parents. I think everyone who goes through a faith crisis has a very personal, unique experience, but I think there some differences between members who want to stay for spouses and children, and those who more exclusively feel the pressure from parents. I think, whatever happens, whether you disengage, come back, make the Church work, renew your enthusiasm for the Church, whatever, it should be because of what you want and not because of fear. Of course, only you know and can set the pace and transparency for this. Good luck and wishing you peace on your journey!

[university]

Thank you all for your kind words I truly appreciated all your comments.

@amateurparent Thank you for the suggestion. I may very well check them out. Now that I’ve entered a new phase, I feel like I might need a little support from people who are also in “transition” and have been through the disassociating process. However, most the communities I’ve found have been very “ex-Mormon” in tone and don’t appeal to my temperament. So thank you for the suggestion!

Currently, my ward’s secretary keeps trying to contact me for tithing settlement. I haven’t responded. I am trying not to resent the fact that they won’t take a hint and stop. I don’t feel comfortable meeting with a bishop I’ve never met with before to tell him “No, I haven’t paid tithing in years and I don’t want to now. I don’t foresee myself paying it in the future.” It’s little situations like this where I don’t know what to do and would like someone to bounce ideas off of.

[university]

My opinion? It just showed to me the depths of which the Brethren are not listening.

I imagine that when gay marriage became legal in the United States, the 12 and First Presidency got together in a meeting and said something along the lines of “Alright, how are we going to respond to this? This is legal now, and we need to deal with the reality of it, so what policies should the Church pursue to protect the integrity of our doctrine?” I think they honestly did think they were being fair and considerate but still protecting the Church and its the doctrine. I’m sure it wasn’t all decided in one meeting. I assume that someone proposed the idea that the church treat gay marriage the way it treats another form of marriage that the church won’t condone or recognize: polygamy.

To me the initial policy shows the extent of which the Brethren are not listening to gay members and family of gay members. Beyond all its horror of condemning gay members as apostates and preventing children living with two gay parents/guardians from getting baptized, the original policy, before they revised it, showed no awareness or empathy for children of one gay parent. With the original wording, hypothetically, if one of a child’s parents came out as gay, and acted on it, divorcing the spouse and living with their partner, and the child had been spending weekends with that parent for visitation, that child would be cut off from baptism and a mission—talk about traumatizing for a child. Then, not only does a child have to deal with the trauma of their parents divorcing, but also not being able to participate in their church because of it. Let’s not mention how horrible that choice would have to be for a gay parent who wants to pursue romantic interests but, in doing so, would essentially cut their children off from their religion. What’s so disturbing to me is that the Brethren clearly had not consulted Mormons with a gay parent(s) before they went through with this. If they had, they would have realized the unintended consequences and worded it differently, at least provided clarification…and this is beyond their failure to recognize its consequences for the mental and emotional well-being of its gay members. I really think they did believe they would just slip it in the handbook and it wouldn’t be the big PR disaster it turned into. Clearly, again, they aren’t listening. If they were, they would have foreseen this. I have to be honest, I was pleased when I saw the story appear on national news with the headline “Mormon Church bans gay members” and “Mormon Church bans children of gay parents.” The Church deserved it.

I know some people think the Brethren are divided on this—I don’t. I guess that’s just too optimistic of thinking for me. I see a united front with them. I do, however, think there is division in tone. I think some of the old-hardliners are much more Packer-esque in how they want to discuss these types of issues, but in regards to actual policy, I am sad to say I really don’t see division in the Brethren. I am, of course, younger and I didn’t live through the Priesthood Ban being overturned.

Nelson was clearly threatened by members rejecting the policy, who were falling back on the mantra of the black male priesthood ban “It was policy, not doctrine” and saying they still supported the Brethren but not the ban…or that they didn’t know whether or not it was right, but they were still believing members. He was probably a little surprised by the huge backlash by non-Mormons and post-Mormons, but that’s not what got him. What got to him was seeing TBM’s not jumping on board with the policy. Hence why he felt it necessary to proclaim it a “revelation” when none of the other brethren took that tone.

[university]

First of all, I’ll preface this by saying it’s really not my place to try and tell someone how they should or shouldn’t come out. That’s very personal and up to you. Above all, I think it’s important that you do this on your own terms with lots of consideration for what you want and what it will mean for your life, and it sounds like that’s what you’re doing.

With that said, I would strongly advise you not to come out to your ward during fast and testimony meeting. I’m not advising you against coming out to your ward in general, per say, but I don’t think that fast and testimony meeting is the right place. I strongly suspect this setting will undermine some of the positive aspects of coming out for you (in regards to how other people respond to it—although I don’t know if you care about this) and you will lose control of your narrative. If you feel strongly that you need to come out to ward members, there are other ways to do so.

With that said, again, again, I realize it’s not my place to tell someone how they should or shouldn’t come out. AP raises some good questions, although I should say here that I can see why you would want to come out, and if that is important to you, I am not advising against that. What I’m advising against is doing it as part of a testimony, but again, this is up to you.

[university]

I think it is a very interesting stereotype Mormons get associated with beyond everyday life. Mormons also get the hype for being “very good businessmen” on the high level (think Mitt Romney, the Marriotts, etc). It feels like most articles I’ve read about “famous Mormons” these days are addressing the question of why Mormons are “so good” in business, and no longer hovering around the Osmonds like it might have been before.

What is interesting to me is how overlooked Mormons get in the entertainment business. There is a huge concentration of successful practicing Mormons, non-practicing Mormons, and ex-Mormons in the entertainment world, especially the music scene, for us making up such a small percentage of the American population, and yet this doesn’t get tied into the Mormon stereotype that I’ve seen like “businessmen” does. I don’t know why this is.

I might be showing my (young) age here, but I mean, just look at this list of Mormon (or ex-Mormon) celebrities. Some of them are so high-profile:

Music

David Archuleta

Alex Boye’

Christina Aguilera (Ex-Mormon…parents were married in the Temple but divorced before she was 8. She’s spoken out against the Church for its stance on LGBTQ marriage before).

Jewel (Non-practicing, ex?)

Derek and Julianne Hough (Non-practicing, although Julianne seems to still identify). Dancers.

Lindsey Sterling. Violinist.

Gladys Knight

Rock Music

Arcade Fire Members (Non-praciting, ex?)

Panic! at the Disco Lead Singer (Ex-Mormon)

Warren Devon (Ex-Mormon)

The Used Lead Singer (Ex-Mormon)

Neon Trees members (Tyler Glenn, the lead singer, is now non-practicing, ex).

Imagine Dragons members

Acting

Amy Adams (Ex-Mormon). The star of the Disney movie Enchanted, the Muppets Movie, and is Lois Lane in the new Superman.

Aaron Eckhart (Ex-Mormon). Harvey Dent/Two Face in the Nolan Batman movie. Well-known character actor.

Paul Walker (Ex-Mormon). Fast & Furious movies.

Ryan Gosling (Ex-Mormon). Big heartthrob for a lot of girls. Famous for the Notebook.

Eliza Dushku (Non-practicing, ex?)

Katherine Heigl (Non-practicing, although seems to somewhat still identify)

Comedy

Chelsea Handler (Ex-Mormon). Raised by a Mormon mom and Jewish dad.

Jon Heder. Of Napoleon Dynamite fame.

Politicians (for good measure):

Harry Reid

Marco Rubio (Ex-Mormon)

Mitt Romney (of course)

Of course, not a completed list, just something I pulled up on the internet. And I don’t mean to speculate on anyone’s faith. I just think this “wealthy Mormon” and “Mormons are so good with business” stereotype is interesting. I think it’s also interesting there’s such a strong presence of successful Mormons/former Mormons in the rock industry but Mormonism never gets tied up with that…I guess that goes against our clean-cut, suite & tie image of the missionaries, doesn’t it?

[university]

Roy wrote:

The advice that I am about to give may have limited applicability to your situation.

I believe that the best course of action is to feed the relationship with your mother rather than to complicate it with church stuff. In saying this I am essentially giving the same advice that I would give to someone with a believing spouse…

As far as the religious historical matters, I prefer to keep things very general. I find it difficult to have in depth conversations were I do not either pretend to believe their religious PoV or reveal exactly how far I have strayed in my thinking. If they fall back on a quote from JS, the BoM, or even the Bible for authority I can say, “Good point, that is important to ponder”…. or I can reveal that I do not necessarily take JS, the BoM, or even the Bible as being authoritative. That is precisely the sort of revelation that might cause my own dear mother to worry about me.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I believe that actually, this is what I’ve been practicing with her for the past year (after growth and movement on both of our parts). Without going into specifics, when I first joined this site two years ago, I was absolutely terrified of what finding out about my faith crisis would do to her. It not only stunted our relationship, but also prevented me from making traction with my faith transition. With this in mind, our relationship has come such a long way and we both are in such better places. She doesn’t know everything, not even the tip of the ice berg, but we are respectful and she does understand I have hang-ups that might keep me out of the Church (even if she is hopeful that I will stay and get married in the Church).

However, despite our successes (which I celebrate because we really have come such a long way) it seems that every Sunday that roles around, she becomes very discontent with her status of not really understanding my faith crisis,increasingly telling me she wants to know what’s going on, which brings me to believe that things are going to change. Whatever decisions I end up making, I want to take my time and make sure that she understands I love her and respect her beliefs. However, I don’t think status quo is going to work much longer.

Ann wrote:

I think it’s difficult to argue against showing her material that the seminary teachers have been told to learn “like the backs of your hands,” material that could just as easily as not pop up in a Sunday lesson.

I’m just thinking about my own mom here. She wants her children to pay her respect and reciprocate the love and closeness she always tried to have with us. After a lifetime of devotion to the church and us, I think she doesn’t mind when I talk to her about my struggles. It’s me coming to her with something important, confiding in her, including her in the meat of my life.

So much depends on the particulars, though. I hope it goes well for you.

Thank you. I think I will tell her that line about the seminary teachers when I send them to her. I’m leaning towards sending them to her with a little preface that explains my deep respect for her and her beliefs, and the way I was raised, as well as my reservations about opening up this conversation with her.

Thank you all very much for your input. This has been helpful as I try to sort this out.

[university]

On Own Now wrote:

university wrote:

I guess the only comparison I can make is a marriage where one spouse has become a non-believer, and the other spouse keeps sincerely asking if they could explain why, but the other one refuses to and then begins to go about life as a non-believer, drinking coffee, alcohol, etc., and no longer attending church, but refusing to explain what led them to that choice.

Haha… well, FWIW, I’ve been happily married to a believer for two decades since my faith crisis and she understands that I don’t want to talk about those things. There’s no coffee or alcohol… and I wouldn’t use the word ‘refuses’ more like ‘not something I want to talk about’. We share our love of the good things and our frustration over the non-so-good, but I’ve never once talked to her about the translation of the BofA. It’s irrelevant. Neither her faith nor my different faith are based on historical issues of the LDS Church.

I do agree that every situation is different, and of course, you have to do what you are comfortable with. I wish you well.

Please understand that I meant no disrespect to your or your personal journey. Just, for my relationship with my mom, never explaining (and I don’t know to what extent) would do more harm than being totally blunt.

Thank you for your well-wishes and for sharing your thoughts.

[university]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

Sorry to say that I hold some of the same reservations you do. The essay on polygamy is beyond infuriating, particularly in that he would invoke the Law of Sarah, the most reprehensible bull crap I ever heard (unfortunately, consistent with D&C 132). The race & priesthood essay essentially kicks it up to God–racism was God’s will, not ours, we just follow orders. I don’t think most people buy that it was God’s will, though, and that was merely implied about the policy / revelation to remove it. I thought that essay was one of the better ones. The seer stone one was better. The Heavenly Mother one likewise didn’t really say anything. *sigh*

I don’t think having your mom read the essays is a bad idea. They look like they have obvious holes in them to me. You can say you just don’t know what to make of those holes, that they still leave things open, even if they do (thankfully) address a lot.

The first time I read the polygamy essay I was upset all day. I was even too distracted to focus on my studies. I’d been trying to make it work. I read it a year later and still had the same reaction.

I don’t know if I can “play dumb” by saying that I don’t know what to make of the holes…when my true opinion is that I very well have “made something” of the holes. I’m trying to figure out how to have this conversation when I feel so strongly but want to respect her and her beliefs. I don’t want/need to convince her of anything but honesty is a big component in our relationship. But thank you. I think I’m leaning towards showing them to her.

LookingHard wrote:

To me it seems like the essays were a way to be able to say to people, “You are shocked about learning XYZ? Shame on you as they have been (almost hidden) on the lds.org website, so don’t say that the church has not told you!”

And then there is what the essays say (and don’t say). If they were put though a historian’s peer review they would be torn up for not telling the whole story.

It seems to me this was a forced upon the church and the pressure of the Internet will just continue to increase as more of the older “I don’t do that internet thing” pass away.

Even at a high level, why did the church continue to support the book of Abraham and say nothing about the issues with it well after the issues had surfaced?

But then thinking about my mom and not wanting to burst her bubble. I think I would have to say to her, “I am very concerned that diving into this is going to cause you great turmoil”

I agree with much of your thoughts. These essays definitely are a response to the shifting times and the uncontrollable flow of information online. I do think the Church sincerely wants to plant some “seeds” of knowledge about more troubling issues in Church History with future generations so they aren’t so devastated when they come across the information in their life. I think that is both self-serving and compassionate at the same time. However, the Church must be struggling because I think for some members, such as myself, the more they learn about these issues the more they are unable to reconcile that with their testimony or what is expected of them in order to continue active membership.

Thanks for touching on my concern for damaging her testimony. Maybe another conversation needs to be had where I communicate that I don’t want to attack the Church or her testimony. I’ve found that a slow, respectful, honest approach (although not loaded with lots of information) has worked really well so far for us. But things are changing right now which is why I wanted to hear some input from this community.

nibbler wrote:

I can appreciate the essays for the step they allow the entire body of the saints to take but at the same time recognize the shortcomings. For example, if not for the essays, what could you show your mother to help her come closer to understanding your views?

Yes, I understand that for many, the fact that the Church has even acknowledged some of these issues is a great step forward. And it does create a space where TBM and struggling members can meet. I do have some gratitude for that. However, this does not change my predicament. My problem is I don’t want to show these to her because I disagree with them. If she reads these, she will absolutely want to talk about them and pick my brain. Then I’m put in a position where I have to acknowledge that I disagree with the Church about the content of these essays and they do nothing to calm my reservations. My mother knows me very well and can see through me. I’m not going to try and be deceptive, either, or dance around her questions. That would insult her. That’s part of the reason I’m in this position right now. I’ve been dancing around her questions and not wanting to delve into anything. She’s intelligent and wants to understand. The prospect of her daughter leaving the church and having little understanding as to why is hard on her.

I don’t know how to send these essays to her without saying, “I must be honest, I don’t like this essay. I feel like it purposely leaves out information and barely skims the surface of what we actually do know in order to try and minimize the problem. But it’s a start.”

Maybe that’s what I’ll end up doing.

However, I’m not in the business of trying to attack the Church or defend my faith crisis to my mother. There lies the rub.

Old Timer wrote:

I would show them to her and let her read them, with the expectation that she will see them very differently than you do. You need to understand and accept that right from the beginning, since any issue you have with her reaction other than acceptance will be hypocritical when you want her to accept you and your view of them. Model for her what you want others to do for you.

This is not a problem for me. I don’t expect her to have the same reaction as me, and as I mentioned before, we have mutual respect. That will not change from my end. My issues are more related to what I wrote to Nibbler and the concern that I could end up damaging her faith.

On Own Now, I think your remarks perfectly illustrate how perspective and life experiences shape our different world views. Believe me, I hear you. Yet, at the same time, I have a different perspective and draw some different conclusions. I’m not only talking about your remarks related to the race and priesthood essay, but your thoughts on the essays in general. However, I still hear you and thank you for your thoughts. Perhaps if I have more time later I’ll respond in more detail.

But now onto your question:

On Own Now wrote:

With your statement in mind, my question is this: Why are you in the business of discussing issues of the Church with your believing mother?

Because she is asking me to. I do “leave her alone.” She keeps coming to me about this. She wants to understand.

This is years in the making. She’s known for a while that I don’t attend church (now I do because I’m living with my family). I’ve danced around her questions about why I’m not the TBM I used to be. It’s wearing on her. This isn’t about vindication. I would love for her to continue her life as a TBM because it brings her joy and peace. I know how hard it is to go through a faith crisis–I would never wish it on anyone and I would never want to take her faith from her. But, as I mentioned before, she’s intelligent, and for her, and our relationship, for me to leave the church without giving her any real reasons would be very painful for her. Each relationship is different. This is one where me refusing to divulge information about this would damage it a lot, more so than blunt honestly ever would. I guess the only comparison I can make is a marriage where one spouse has become a non-believer, and the other spouse keeps sincerely asking if they could explain why, but the other one refuses to and then begins to go about life as a non-believer, drinking coffee, alcohol, etc., and no longer attending church, but refusing to explain what led them to that choice.

On Own Now wrote:

But every time you say, “I don’t believe” or “I have lost faith in” or “I have moral objections to”, then you are framing your faith as being opposed to something… and that something is what your mom loves. It won’t end well.

Until recently, I’ve done well to avoid these things. Not just with my mother, but with others. Thanks for the reminder to keep this in mind.

On Own Now wrote:

My only caveat with all this is that what you believe today will probably change over time. So, coming up with what you do believe right now is a temporary measure to build a message for your mom, but recognize that you will change as you find your path.

This is another problem. Things are subject to change. Right now I feel like I’m on my way out. After I move out of Utah, I might miss the church and come back. I think the possibility is slim, but my heart is completely open to it happening. This makes explaining things to my mom all the more difficult.

I feel like I might be overthinking this or stressing about something too much. Maybe I should just send her the essays and not say anything until she brings it up. Thank you all for your responses and thoughts. I’d love to hear more from you.

[university]

A little background on me, I was raised Mormon, but I didn’t grow up with the “Prosperity Gospel” which I guess is popular in other households. I grew up with the “Gospel of Job.” I quite literally was taught, growing up, that the most righteous souls receive the most difficult trials. For me, blessings from God meant that he would bless you just enough to get through these hard experiences and that through it all, you would have peace. Essentially, I was taught that if you a really good person life is going to be very difficult. So there’s my background. I don’t know how to answer the question of faith vs. expectation of intervention from God. In this thread I detailed what I do for my studies, so if you’re curious, that gives some background on my opinion. Obviously my field changes what I expect. I have a friend who believes God intervenes daily–so much that once, when we were running late, she said to me, “Let’s pray while we walk so we can make it in time.” I had to smile.

Given my field of study, I’ve worked with people who have experienced grief and loss to such a magnitude that for many, it is incomprehensible. Some of these people are actually quite religious. Some of them believe they have witnessed miracles or even owe their life to a miracle (and who am I to judge them wrong in that?) but their idea of “miracles” and why they happen is so much different than the understanding a lot of Mormons here in the corridor subscribe to.

For me, I don’t know why things happen. If God, or deity, has intervened in my life, I am sincerely grateful. Something deep in my soul believes this has happened or perhaps there is something greater at work, here. If not, well, that’s just how it is. I’m grateful, anyway. I don’t expect things, but that doesn’t stop me from praying for help, either.

[university]

Sacrament Meeting was not good for me. I was noticeably uncomfortable and my mom picked up on it. I hadn’t felt that way in sacrament meeting in a long time.

Youth speaker: not very memorable. Innocent testimony. Talk was read.

Couple speaker (elderly couple who live close to us):

Wife: Brief talk. Mostly about staying in the boat. Not what I want/need to hear but wasn’t bad. Some generalizations blaming people for leaving the church but some nice points as well. I was pleasantly surprised because her final point was not to judge people because you never know what they are going through.

Husband: He seemed like a nice enough man, but his whole talk about honoring our ancestors or our “fathers” in the Church who came before us (beckoning back to the Nephites) by staying in the Church and being “strong members.” Really laid it on the thick. Obedience, obedience, obedience. Comments about how the world is getting worse (and indirect references to gay marriage and the Church “being under attack” for standing up for what’s right). Talked about how life is going to get difficult for the “true believers” now from here on out. Again, really laid on the thick how important it is to stay in the Church and be good strong members. Said “there is nothing more important we can do for our parents than to remain strong members in the Church.” I felt like I was listening to a lecture specifically designed for someone like me, in the worst way. It was a rough 15 minutes. EDIT: I forgot to mention here that my mom is looking at all four of her children potentially leaving the church. Two siblings already out. Another one on the way out. I’m the last hope even though inside I know what’s coming.

My mother could sense my nervous energy. We’ve actually had some wonderful talks about where I am at right now, even though she doesn’t know the full extent of how I feel. To be honest, I think I was scowling during this man’s talk (sometimes I’m not the best at hiding my feelings). She even felt compelled to lean over and tell me that he actually really is a nice and wise man, as if to imply she understood I didn’t like his talk. I didn’t respond.

[university]

Thank you for all your thoughtful comments. This place really helped me calm down and keep my feet on the ground during some of the worst moments of my faith crisis. Even though I was never a frequent poster and mostly lurked, just knowing there was a community out there like this that I could keep an eye on gave me some peace through it all. Well wishes to you all. I’ll check in from time to time.

[Author]

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