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You could have at least put a NSFMM’s (not safe for mormon males) in the title. I didn’t expect to click on this thread and see…sh..sh..shoulders. Ahhhhhhhhh
Beefster wrote:
So I just got back from experiencing the temple and here are my findings:If you’re just wanting to get to the celestial room then do sealings or initiatories. Won’t take as long and maybe you can get something out of them that you don’t the endowment session.
I think losing my friends is what’s been one of the hardest things for me during my FC. I moved away from my ward about the same time but I’ve come to realize that the relationships were only sustained through church. That’s when we saw each other, made plans, etc. Once that was gone, so were the relationships essentially. I’m not a social person and don’t feel like most people are worth being friends with so the very few who I call friends are like family to me. They had keys to my house, I spent holidays with them, and shared personal details with them. I moved only 10-15 minutes away and yet I’ve seen them once in the last year. And yes I put forth the effort to try and get together, I finally realized it just wasn’t happening. It’s been a hard thing for me to accept and has put me off from trying to make friends at church anymore. Having what I would call no friends at this point is hard enough but losing the few people I actually care about (at least locally) was pretty devastating.
Holy Cow wrote:
DancingCarrot wrote:
Regarding porn use, I think it important to mention the male-centricity of most of it. Usually, the men are the arbiters, the agents who engage and the women are there to fulfill his desires. I think this is especially problematic for people who have never had any sexual experience in real life, as it sets them up for unrealistic expectations. Even acknowledging that it’s fantasy, there are still lots of things that don’t bubble up to the surface until you’re in a sexual relationship with someone else.Like others have said, removing shame and anxiety/fear is usually a good thing, but I’m also hesitant to put a blue ribbon on consuming porn. Additionally, pragmatically speaking, the industry is notoriously terrible to the actors, and a lot of them don’t have much choice regarding their “careers”. Is it a deal breaker or divorce maker? No. But it’s not in the positive column either.
I think this is right on. We can say porn is a defense mechanism, or a stress relief, or whatever else; but, there are healthier ways to cope. Using porn as a way to cope with stress, or even just to avoid sheer boredom, doesn’t give us a healthy view of sex. And I think it goes deeper than Christian beliefs or Mormon views on modesty/chastity. Porn isn’t beneficial for the individual regardless of religious affiliation, but the real damage is in relationships. I have a close friend of 20+ years who was recently divorced, and said that what finally caused her to leave her marriage was that her husband wouldn’t give up porn. This couple is not LDS. In fact, they’re both atheist, very socially liberal, smoke weed on a fairly regular basis, etc., but are both very friendly and giving people with huge hearts. I’m still on very friendly terms with both of them, and they still interact with each other respectfully. They had their differences, but had a pretty good marriage, at least from an outsider’s perspective. But, she shared with my wife that she could always tell when he had been looking at porn a lot, because he’d get distant, short-tempered, impatient. And if she confronted him about it, he’d act like she was being over-sensitive and prudish about it. But, he would never acknowledge how it made her feel. She’s a very healthy and attractive person, but she was self-conscious and feeling like she’d never live up to what he wanted her to be. I’m sure, in his mind, the porn and how he viewed his wife where two completely separate things. But, she didn’t feel that way about it. Porn wasn’t their only issue, or even their biggest issue. But, in the end it was the deciding factor that made her feel the most disrespected.
So, can porn be a simple stress relief, and a way to relax at the end of the day. Sure. But, when I hear justifications for porn, it makes me feel the same way I feel when I start hearing justifications for the whole JS/Fanny Alger affair.
🙄 I’ve got no room to judge, and that’s not what I’m trying to do, but I think it’s okay to call a bad habit a bad habit.
I feel like there is far more to this story than just being able to look at this one particular incident and say that porn is the real issue. I could find stories of marriages being saved because porn allows the high drive partner an outlet.
On the surface, porn might have been the issue but there are likely underlying problems within the life/marriage that fuel the porn use. It’s best to figure out what those are and deal with them directly to bring your life/marriage into balance. If he was addicted (truly addicted not mormon addicted) then yes it is a problem although that’s likely not the case. As with everything in life, moderation in all things.
Most I know seem to be more angry/bitter than the other way around. When your world is turned upside down it’s hard not to be hurt and feel angry. Some feel betrayed and lied to. I don’t agree with the approach to dealing with the pain but I understand it.
What I don’t understand is I see so many of them that want to pull family members or other people in with them. Maybe it’s just that you feel so alone when you don’t fit into the crowd anymore. Why can’t we all just respect the other persons opinion and just LOVE one another instead of trying to make the other person see through our lens? And to be honest I’d never wish that on anybody. Going through a FC has been, and still continues to be, one of the most emotionally painful periods of my life.
I’m sure the people on this board tend to try and associate with like minded people so the majority won’t have much experience with the stereotyped “bitter ex-mormon”. They are out but it’s hard to say in what real quantities.
Reuben wrote:The Q15 is doing some similar things. There have been changes to how ward councils are run, for example, to try to involve women more. What they’re too reticent to do, though, is change the doctrine. For example, as long as the idea that group X is somehow less than Y is supported by doctrine (e.g. many-to-one marriages and “fixing” homosexuals in the next life), then
regardless of anything else they do, group X will be less than Y in the Church. I understand the resistance to change anything as far as doctrine goes though. Once you start making changes I think it gives a much larger portion of the membership reason to really question things than there was before. I don’t see things going well if there are relatively big changes in the doctrine even if I support those changes.
Thanks for the comments everyone. Joni wrote:
I think you could consider church history a third category.
I think this is where I was torn. A lot of my issues are tied back into church history and so I can see how some could say that they aren’t doctrinal issues so I need to get over it but I can’t do the mental gymnastics necessary to fit them into the culture category.
I think you made the right choice. I will also say, don’t discount other dating sites. The LDS ones are generally filled with more orthodox mormons which makes sense. If you go to other sites you’ll find mormons (some, not all) who are more open-minded and willing to date people with differing beliefs. Also there are a lot of good people out there with good morals and values who aren’t mormon, don’t limit yourself. I stepped away from it all while for awhile but I don’t think I’ll be going back to the LDS sites. You’re going to be drawing from a pretty small pool if you stick to only LDS sites. Just what I’ve seen in my experience.
I just skimmed the replies. I started a similar thread a couple of months ago if you want to dig it up and look at the replies there. I believe you need to be more upfront in your profile. You might as well weed out the ones (as there are plenty) who want a strictly orthodox mormon. You don’t need to lay it all out there but some clue as to where you stand would be helpful. It will also spark conversations with those who align more closely with you.
They are out there. I’ve had conversations with at least a couple on the lds dating sites. I stated where I stood (to some degree). I’m sure many immediately dismissed me but you have to be willing to accept that. They are going to do it anyways when they find out so why waste their time and yours?
As far as my differing opinion I’ve thought about it a little bit and I’m not sure what I was thinking really fits into the context of what we are focusing on here. I don’t have all the answers to how we should teach our youth about purity but I don’t think we do it the right way. We need to make sure we emphasize that we always have repentance and the atonement available to us when teaching those lessons. We need to do away with the terrible analogies that make it seem like they are somehow only part of a person or forever altered if they do make a mistake.
I don’t think tank tops or short that hit above the knees on women are big deal. I don’t think laying the blame on women for mens thoughts is in any way a good thing. I also don’t think sexual sin is as big of a deal as we make it out to be which is where I really differ but I’m not sure it fits or needs to be discussed here. (Not trying to justify my past behaviors or make it seem like sex is no big deal.)
LookingHard wrote:
Interesting read going to a different extremehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-this-mom-wont-teach-her-daughters-to-dress-modestly_us_59395838e4b0c5a35c9cd890?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-this-mom-wont-teach-her-daughters-to-dress-modestly_us_59395838e4b0c5a35c9cd890?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313
I can’t believe this is correctly quoted. A 7 year old said this???
😯 Disclaimer – I only skimmed
From the article:
Quote:Cosette, 7, says, “I wear what I like but I make sure my vulva is covered.”
DarkJedi wrote:
unsure wrote:
Ward Council can go in my opinion. Let’s bring 10-15 people together for an hour/hour and a half where only 2 or 3 of those people really need to discuss anything which doesn’t matter to 90% of the people there. Everything else said have been taken care of in a text or 30 second phone call to the individual(s) who it needs to be relayed to. Most meetings are just ridiculously inefficient which only makes things worse when you are already expected to do so much.I am aware that there are wards where the case is as you describe Unsure. I hope it is the minority but I don’t know if it is or not. My own ward probably fits your description to some extent. BUT, I have been to excellent ward councils where stuff is actually accomplished, administrative input is given, and assignments (delegation) are given. In the case of the ward council I most often attend the bishop is less busy because he can and does rely on other ward leaders to do things that otherwise might fall to him by default, and they in turn rely on their counselors and others to help. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it is how I think it’s supposed to work and in that case ward council is invaluable.
I’m just relaying my experience from having attended ward council but granted my sample size of wards I’ve attended ward council in is very small. It also wasn’t uncommon to sit around for 15 minutes past the scheduled start time because the bishop ran over on whatever meeting he was currently in.
I’m just not a fan of most meetings as they generally aren’t that efficient, at least not when the group size gets to be over a few people. I always thought EQ and YM presidency meetings were efficient and helpful. Ward council? Not so much. Again, just my experience and good to know that I’m probably in the minority. Maybe I’m just jaded.
🙂 Ward Council can go in my opinion. Let’s bring 10-15 people together for an hour/hour and a half where only 2 or 3 of those people really need to discuss anything which doesn’t matter to 90% of the people there. Everything else said have been taken care of in a text or 30 second phone call to the individual(s) who it needs to be relayed to. Most meetings are just ridiculously inefficient which only makes things worse when you are already expected to do so much. dande48 wrote:It’s HARD to repent. It’s also hard not to return to the “sin” once you’ve had that experience. Once upon a time, back in my college dating years, the virginity of a YW never really bothered me. My stance originally was, if she messed up in the past and repented, it’s not my place to even care. I had a number of girlfriends, two of which had sex before marriage, both claimed repentance and held temple recommends. Unfortunately, both cheated on me by sleeping around… and then it became a bigger deal. I’ve always believed repentence is 100% possible, “white as snow”, and all that. But I developed strong “trust issues”, and certain “baggage” I didn’t feel like I could deal with.
I know my opinion here will differ from most so I”ll just keep it to myself.
🙂 Dande – I know that was your experience but it sounds as if you’re suggesting that women (or people in general) who have sex before marriage will not be faithful in a relationship. I don’t agree with that at all.
Also I’m not sure actually experiencing the sin is what’s really making it hard not to return to. You likely sinned because it’s a temptation for you, that’s what makes it hard and makes it easier to return to. For most I’d say sex is a strong temptation but I don’t think experiencing it necessarily makes it harder to resist. Unless you have the “i’m broken now” mentality that can be ingrained by improper teachings through the church and decide to just do whatever you want.
I’ve broken the WoW in the past yet feel no desire to do so again. Why? Because it’s just not my thing. It’s not a temptation for me. We can still sin without temptation. I think that’s an important distinction to make.
