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Just a small update on how class is going. Only been 3 days so far. So far nothing been said that I’d strongly disagree with. There is a little bit of time for questions and discussions but the teacher still tries to pack so much into the short hour we have I feel like there is still very little time for it. It’s still very guided in a sense. A couple interesting comments were made though. Tuesday we talked briefly about the difference between “eternal truths” and “church administration or policy”, I forget the exact wordage for the latter. Anyways there was a list of things like doing xyz to get to celestial kingdom, blacks not having priesthood, etc. At the end a girl asked where polygamy fit into that and he initially said he felt comfortable calling it either A or B, A being eternal truth and B being the other. He did expound some more and pretty much came around to it being just a policy at the time. His answer wasn’t perfect in my opinion but I was satisfied with what it ended up being. He did say we’d cover it more later so we’ll see. Wish I would have posted earlier so what was said was still fresh in my mind.
In the same class another girl was commenting and mentioned ‘gray commandments’ which I thought was interesting. She did qualify it with, “if there is such a thing” because I think it made her a little nervous saying it. Either way, it was good to hear others thinking for themselves and questioning things also. The teacher didn’t address the gray commandments part of her comment if you’re wondering.
I’ll post occasional updates with interesting things that happen.
Ann wrote:“Blue Flower” in the comments section says s/he has been pretty much written off by family after leaving the church, and then this:
Quote:In retrospect, I believe all of our relationships were doomed right from the start because of the Mormon intrusion. We would never be able to bond completely to one another because Mormonism was the middle man. It’s always been this way, therefore I’m relatively at peace with stifling my disappointments about familial relationships. But every now and again… birthdays, holidays, or reading an op-ed that zeroes right in on this issue… I get incredibly depressed and sad about how crippled my family was made by the Mormon religion.
Parents couldn’t unconditionally love children because what if, what if. They had to raise kids with care, but not with love. Children then don’t learn how to love or be loved. Siblings can’t see the benefits of bonding as friends for life. Families can be together forever… IF.That IF paralyzes families from even being interested in being together forever. We were so crippled by Mormonism. Sometimes, when I let the emotions in, it aches to live with this harm. It’s hard not to be resentful, too. I think not a few families aren’t functional enough to overcome the number that our view of heaven and our culture can do on them. I’d put mine in that category. My dad especially didn’t know how to relate to his sons after they became inactive. He said they threw away the only good thing he had to give them. The church! And I DO blame the church for abetting that thinking. Especially “back then.” I think it’s trying to do better.
I think it’s really sad that something we teach as so important and really does do a lot of good to bring families closer together, also has the ability to tear them apart because of those beliefs.
I don’t think I’d agree with most of what Blue Flower said though. While that fear can paralyze some families I don’t think it’s the majority or even close to it. I have a great relationship with my family and siblings. It has far more to do with how your parents raise you and the love they show for you than any affect the mormon religion directly has on your family, IMO. Seems like they are blaming the mormon religion for unloving parents which affected the dynamics of the whole family.
dande48 wrote:The customary questions I ask are:
1. Are you healthy?
2. Are you happy?
3. Do you have the Spirit?
Inducing shame, whatever the reason, is never very effective.
I think something along these lines might be a good way to go. I think it helps shows you care more about them as a person rather than if they are meeting some predetermined goals or not.
nibbler wrote:This comment will unintentionally sound very matter of fact but…
What would it mean to you if those feelings were coming from the spirit? What would it mean to you if those feelings were coming from you? It could be some combination, internal feelings validated by the spirit or spiritual feelings validated by you. If you felt good does it matter where the feelings came from? Is one source more valid or authoritative than another? Would identifying the source make a difference in what you intend to do about those feelings?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not challenging you or anything. I just thought I’d fire off a few questions. Junk food for thought.
Good questions. I’m not sure I really have the answers to those questions. I guess I want to feel like I know they are coming from the spirit so I’m getting a confirmation that things are true and it’s not just my inner self feeling good. I don’t mind at all being challenged so fire away.
DarkJedi wrote:
And therein is the keystone of my faith crisis. I don’t know the answers to your questions. I do wholeheartedly believe the spirit can be felt anywhere at any time, that Mormons have no monopoly on the spirit and that the “gift of the Holy Ghost” is not all it’s purported to be. That said, I most often feel what I think is the spirit during music but it is not limited to music. The second most common time is when I am alone in nature.This sounds a lot like me. For me there is something deeply spiritual about going out into nature away from everyone and just soaking it in. I really feel close to God when I do that. I don’t mind doing it with others but it’s a lot easier to control the peace and quiet when it’s just you alone.
After thinking about it some more I think part of my issue was feeling like, I’m going through a faith crisis so why allow me to feel the spirit elsewhere and cause further confusion. I don’t know. That’s not the best way to say it but I’m not coming up with the words right now.
I don’t know the validity of that line of thought being a reason for retention issues but I could see it being a part of it. I think I’d disagree a little bit with what Heber said. While other religions have heaven and hell it seems to be a little more cut and dry there and the issue is amplified within the mormon religion. In the mormon religion we essentially have 3 heavens (and I’ve even heard of different degrees within the celestial kingdom) and then with talk of not being able to visit those in the lesser kingdoms and there being no real way of knowing where you or your loved one will end up it can be worrisome. You can say, “well I think I’m doing good enough to make it to the celestial kingdom but who really knows, maybe I’m not and I’ll be cut off from my family or vice versa”. I think everyone feels like if they aren’t the perfect mormon they aren’t going to make it to the celestial kingdom and when they see their loved one not being the perfect mormon it means they won’t be spending the eternities together. That’s a pretty hard thought to accept. So you could end up in a different “heaven” than your son, mother, sister or even your own spouse.
Looks interesting. I’ve gotten away from reading but would like to get back to it for sure. Think I’ll pick this up soon. Congrats on his mission call. I hope all goes well for him while he is gone. One of my friends growing up served a mission in Russia. No major worries to speak of other than almost freezing to death. I personally didn’t go on a mission and I know baptisms are important to some but I really enjoy service. I wish I would have had been able to choose to go on a service only mission and I think I likely would have gone. I did explore “service missions” later in life once I returned to church but serving (essentially working) part time for the church in different capacities is far different than living somewhere else and wholly devoting your time and energy to serving the people around you.
Old Timer wrote:I agree with much of what you say, but . . .
Quote:I would like to see more emphasis placed on avoiding debt, getting out of debt, living conservatively, and saving for the future.
That principle is taught actively and directly in the Church. Many members don’t live it, but it’s not because it isn’t being taught.
I agree that it is taught in church. I hear it in regular church meetings as well as GC. Some people need more direction with money issues than others though and just hearing it isn’t always enough. There are plenty of resources out there if you need more direction. The Dave Ramsey one mentioned is good.
I’ll definitely keep you updated on how it goes if you are interested. She did ask if I was going to be taking classes. I just assumed you had to be a student to attend the institute there but maybe not. Maybe it’s a safe measure to try and keep the weirdo’s from hanging out with all the college age girls.
🙂 Well I ended up signed up for Teachings and Doctrine of the BOM. Since I’m an old man (over 30) I had to call and register because it wouldn’t let me do it online. Then she tells me I have to go down and read and sign some kind of waiver thing that the young bucks get to do online but us old people have to show up and do in person. I’m not sure what the purpose is exactly.
:problem: DarkJedi wrote:unsure wrote:DarkJedi wrote:I’d go for one of the “new” classes – Christ and the Everlasting Gospel, Teachings & Doctrine of the BoM, or perhaps that special topics one. If done right, the new ones are supposed to more in depth and flexible than standard SS answer stuff you’ve heard over and over.
How do you know those are “new” ones?
I assume they haven’t changed much most of those classes have been institute classes for a long time and so maybe they are familiar. I don’t know much about institute. Actually, they have changed within the last couple years. I have children at BYU who have taken the new classes, and particularly my RM son who started under the old system much preferred the newer classes ( he took Christ and the Gospel and Foundations of the Restoration ).
http://universe.byu.edu/2014/10/29/major-curriculum-changes-to-affect-byu-religion-requirements/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://universe.byu.edu/2014/10/29/major-curriculum-changes-to-affect-byu-religion-requirements/ Thanks for the link. Looks like I gravitated towards the new classes anyways.
Looks like I was under the influence of something when I wrote that post you quoted! haha
amateurparent wrote:New Testament is also where I am anchored. I would love an Old Testament class that focused on Jewish history, traditions, and Talmud. But, I don’t think Institute is the place to find that ..
Maybe get the parking, grab snacks, and have a class conflict ..
I think I read that 75% attendance is required if you want to keep your parking pass so that’s a no go. I think the free covered parking in the center of campus (almost $800 otherwise or walk 1/2 mile back and forth to park to a cheap lot), occasional snacks and $1 lunches on thursdays will be worth the two 50 minute time periods I spend in class every week. We’ll see how I feel next semester.
🙂 DarkJedi wrote:I’d go for one of the “new” classes – Christ and the Everlasting Gospel, Teachings & Doctrine of the BoM, or perhaps that special topics one. If done right, the new ones are supposed to more in depth and flexible than standard SS answer stuff you’ve heard over and over.
How do you know those are “new” ones? I assume they haven’t changed much most of those classes have been institute classes for a long time and so maybe they are familiar. I don’t know much about institute.
SilentDawning wrote:I’ve never felt the distinction between a HP and an EQ for social reasons was any good. I am young minded and would much rather be with the young bucks. The lessons would give me ample opportunity to share my own perception on life situations EQ members are only beginning to face. I think it would be good for HT to pair up an EQ member with a HP.
I always thought it was because you HP talked about special things us EQ’s weren’t smart enough to understand.
There are a couple people in our ward that got called to HP in their early 30’s and I just feel bad for those people. Now they “can’t” go to EQ activities and I doubt hanging out with a bunch of guys who’s average age is 30+ yours is all that exciting. (Sorry old guys
