[wanderer]

Well, I used Uchtdorf’s priesthood talk as my hometeaching lesson at the bishop’s house emphasizing that those who don’t go to PEC and such miss out on a lot of brotherhood and it is easy to not feel needed as well as how nice it was to get a “your doing good, try your best” talk like the sisters get periodically as opposed to the usual “you guys are failures and never measure up”, and he (the bishop) kind of smirked it off with a flippant comment about low hometeaching.

Mentioned my disquiet at his reaction to mil at Sunday dinner and She was all in agreement about men not needing encouraging talks like the sisters. So I think we should be happy some GA’s see the issue but it may take awhile for the membership.

Sometimes I feel less like a sheep in a stall and more like Balaam’s donkey except people will actually listen to a talking donkey.

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[wanderer]

Yup, I think that’s part of the reason I’ve become so stressed when missionary work comes up historically. Probably also the reason I had a pretty low baptism rate on my mission too. I’m not one to superimpose my beliefs on people.

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[wanderer]

My brother coming out has incubated things for me over the years and my ability to now love him more openly and supportively Is one of the greatest results of my faith crisis for the good. He wasn’t the only cause of my faith crisis but it was a catalyst.

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[wanderer]

Dang, wish you were my hp group leader cwald. Half the time I do end up taking kid’s as my comp is sick or busy. My single sisters (older widows) take a lot more time than most as what they need most is someone to talk to so a visit is seldom less than an hour and time adds up fast. I could do 15 minute visits and do all 8 families that would let me in but I wouldn’t be fulfilling any of their needs so I figure I can at least be a good ht for 5 families and hope leadership figures it out sooner than later.

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[wanderer]

And amen again. They just upped me to 8 families but I can only handle 5 well so that’s what I do. If they don’t like it they can talk to me and I will tell them why I’m not 100%, it’s because I can’t dedicate enough time away from my higher calling- father , to home teach that many and I’m not going to short change my current families. At a certain point when your amount of HP’s able to home teach drops below a certain # and your single sisters don’t, you are looking at impossible odds on going 100%.

On the asking questions you don’t want to front , I’d use the line many presidents have used with great success when reporting- I forgot….. or, you could use the line no one can argue with, “the spirit prompted me to not ask at that time”.

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[wanderer]

Good job on holding it together. It would be tough not to walk away at that point.

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[wanderer]

Good to know. I won’t whine about missing out on a fold now. Funny I never heard that but I haven’t been in a ward council mtg for almost 5 years now so I guess that’s how I missed it. Funny how different callings swing you out into eddie’s of the church where you miss out on news changes like that.

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[wanderer]

Ah, and then as if things weren’t complicated enough, Zeniff teaches us its

Possible to be overzealous! I find it offensive sometimes when church leaders feel it is ok to be boarish about things because it’s not them, it’s their authority, their acting that way on behalf of Christ (which theoretically makes it worse). There’s a fine line between zealous and abuse of authority sometimes I think. But that’s kind of your point really, tough to have charity and boarish feelings at the same time.

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[wanderer]

The only issue with attending another ward than the one your records are in is you may cause pushback at temple recommend time from leaders, particularly ones who don’t have a track record for being understanding. If your not concerned about that I can’t see any issues other than it will bug your old ward because of the numbers but I think happiness/sanity is worth quite a bit personally, but it is often pawned off as not too important by the counters of the numbers. It’s all about measuring fruits(regarding decisions), and happiness is probably the best fruit out there.

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[wanderer]

A lesson that evaluated worthiness as measured by the amount of meat consumed, late bedtimes and sleeping in would be a highly entertaining lesson in my mind. Of course leaders rarely go for the most entertaining execution to their assignments though.

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[wanderer]

I would maintain also that sometimes high minded niceness/love, can translate to harsh cruelty at times when the end result fully plays out. It goes along the lines of sometimes it’s the ones whom we love and love us that are capable of hurting us the most. I think nearly all Mormons think they are charitable loving people, but sometimes their love plays out to be tougher than someone else’s. In the end between being on the end of someone who fully intends to be cruel and someone who thinks they are kind but are cruel by accident I think I would choose the latter everytime so I suppose my thought eclipses itself.

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[wanderer]

Wayfarer- just read your introduction that got re-bumped recently. There were some excellent points in there. I currently am not arriving at the same conclusions to the data as Bushman is as I read rough stone rolling and I think, if the desired end result is in fact spiritual growth and happiness, perhaps my best approach to Joseph Smith is to view him as parable through the church’s version of his history and not through what others might call the more accurate history. For instance, the story of Buddha lieing down to feed a starving mother Tiger so her young would not die as a lesson on compassion, I am sure is not historically accurate, and yet it teaches a principle to Buddhists (interesting tie in to the Anti Nephi Lehi’s there incidentally). Not that I disagree with others who want the truth at all costs, but I think I appreciate your approach much better than I do Atheism (no offense to Atheists, I respect how you got where you are, it’s just not for me and with current family relations it’s just not an option). My current goal is harmony with myself and those around me and I think the approach you take as I read it is likely the most successful approach. As a result I decided to go ahead with my original plan this week to attend the temple today but thought I would look for DAOist principles and was quite surprised to see how much was there.

As far as what originally attracted me to DAOism I thought it was really cool that even the name has a tie in to Christ as that is one of his names, The Way. I also remember as I learned about it in college (many years ago) that if I wasn’t a Mormon I’d probably really get into DAOism and here I am realizing that they can work together.

[wanderer]

Just remember he has just as much right to make his spiritual journey as you did, even if he may have read more into your example than you may have liked. He may end up coming to the same end as you and then again he may not. Personally I would have a really hard time on a mission these days but I think at 19 it’s exactly what I needed. Who knows, maybe that is where he’ll learn to have the strength to not be a robot or learn to navigate the deep waters of the church culture while being different.

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[wanderer]

Thanks for bumping this. Very, very, good thought which I am going to remember.

Roy’s comment on the most unbending often being the most insecure inside is spot on I think. I’m related to people like this that thump their metaphorical chest loudly but are constantly on the edge of emotional crisis behind the scenes.

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[wanderer]

I’m with you Tim. I did see recently that although many studies are not friendly to the church regarding stress levels and depression and all that, one study did find that in fact the church does have a lower suicide rate so there is at least that. I agree also with the thoughts stating it depends as well. I probably wouldn’t have made it through my teenage years without the good healthy fear of suicide the church teaches so i can thank it for getting me across that chasm at the very least. It’s good enough for me that I can bear it for the happiness of my family but I no longer believe in going crazy for it.

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