[Watcher]

Carburettor wrote:

I subscribed here (and offered a little personal background in the introductions area) to ask this question to all who are willing to delve with me into the messy territory of gender and identity. I have posed the question I spent over fifty years overtly attempting to exemplify in a positive sense without fully realising what I was doing. In the five years since, however, my entire outlook has shifted, and I have resigned myself to remaining in unhappiness and occasional distress for as long as I remain an active, covenant-keeping Church member (which is all I know). I suspect my rationale will surprise you — and it is for this reason that I really, really, really want to talk it through with someone who will listen and respond with kindness. Maybe even show me how to avoid what now feels inevitable.

I spent three years interacting with rather a lot of “those” people. Here is a Google map I created between 2018 and 2019 as part of my outreach to a few acquaintances and almost 1,000 members of the North Star organisation, which operates in support of LDS Church teachings in respect of chastity and the Family Proclamation: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=15vNARE93vjcxAKL9UdUeZFtyPu7Xr6A&usp=sharing

Zoom in to an area with stars. Right in. A single star represents one or more individuals in the stake named by clicking on it — where red (a whole or partial star) indicates one or more same-sex-attracted men, green represents one or more transgender individuals, yellow represents one or more same-sex-attracted women, blue represents one or more non-binary-gender individuals, and lilac represents one or more asexual individuals. Many members will have changed locations since then, some will have left the Church, and a few may even have killed themselves. The map is simply a snapshot in time of a few individuals whose paths crossed mine. There are hundreds of thousands of others whose paths did not cross mine.

In the course of my interactions with all these members, as well as with LDS Family Services, Church therapists, and Church leaders — from local level to the Office of the First Presidency — my optimism for a future without distress has systematically evaporated.

As stated earlier, I suspect my rationale will surprise you.

Greeting. I cannot speak for anyone but myself and so you will better understand, I will provide a little back story. I am an old and covenant member of the Church. I retired from my consulting business at the beginning of COVID. I am a scientist (math and Physics) and worked in industrial robotics and artificial intelligence. I became a scientist by choice because I am dyslexic and unsuited for much of anything else. I am a member of the Church by logic, reason and choice. I have difficulty with emotions subjective notions and cannot connect anything as real without logic and reason.

As I understand, the great division that caused the war in heaven was singularly because of “Agency” and not over any definition of what is good and evil. I champion the concept of agency. I believe that agency is, in essence, the prime directive G-d intended for mankind (his children). I do not believe that there is any principle more important than the prime directive of agency.

I do not believe that anyone can be happy and have peace with anything that they, themselves, did not understand and deliberately choose. To think or argue otherwise – I believe is futile and the only possible result of opposition to this notion is eventual misery, inability to find or have peace and unhappiness. Others may think that they can have peace and be happy with something they did not choose – I just do not understand such thinking. However, I believe that the greatest good is that you decide for yourself what you will be and will be happy with before you can achieve any notion of peace.

I think you and I agree that you are the piolet to your happiness and your peace. Those that claim they are victims without deliberate choice – I cannot understand how it is possible that they can ever achieve peace or happiness.

It is logical to me that there are 3 degrees of glory resulting from our mortal experience with “good” and evil. My definition of good and evil may be different than most but it is not really perinate to this thread. It is logical to me that only that which is Celestial is sustainable. I do not believe that anything within the LGBTQ+ definition is sustainable. I can explain why but again that is not what I believe is as important as agency.

It is logical to me that whatever degree of glory a person is resurrected for is a glory of their choice and agency. I see no reason to attempt to convince someone that is sure of their own choice – what will give them happiness and peace. I can only state clearly what peace and happiness I seek.

I will support anyone that is clear what their choice in life is. I do believe that the closest they will come to peace and happiness will be in the community of the Saints of G-d. Unfortunately, in this life very few achieve Sainthood – most of us fall short – some of us more than others. Never-the-less, I believe you should choose for yourself and only then will you find peace and happiness.

[MODERATOR NOTE +++ Watcher is more on the traditional LDS viewpoint on this and most other topics than are many of the participants here. The moderators do not want an echo chamber here and do find various viewpoints and dissenting opinions valuable. We do not chase people away for what they believe as long as they don’t dismiss or diminish the viewpoints of others. This topic is of a particularly sensitive nature. I believe that the stated belief that nothing “within the LGBTQ+ definition is sustainable” is more or less an extension of what has been said by DHO and other church leaders. I believe that it is offered with the intent of being helpful. There is great danger of arguing or becoming divisive here. If it happens the thread will be locked. +++ END MODERATOR NOTE]

[Watcher]

SilentDawning wrote:

What do you think — is Hope overrated? Are we better off NOT hoping, particularly when the thing we are hoping for has a low probability of success (like someone who has a completely severed spine and is paralyzed from the waist down), and focus on coping and joy in spite of the unpleasant event, or should be continue in Hope and prayer even if it seems like a positive outcome is unlikely?

Some thoughts that I can only give according to my experiences. I am of a mind that hope is the initial experience of faith. That hope of things between birth and death is doomed because everything connected to life (which is in essence everything we know of empirically) eventually ends through death. Science overwhelmingly concludes that eventually even the universe ends in a kind of death of everything. Scripture tells us that if we have hope of Christ in this life only, we are of all men most miserable. I am convinced that hope of anything in this life only; will eventually result in misery.

If we have hope in anything beyond the grave – such hope seem to me to be meaningless unless our hope beyond the grave includes both forgiveness and mercy – first for ourselves and then for others as well. Hope in Christ is the only hope that makes sense to me. The reason is, that it is the only hope I can reconcile that is directly connected to forgiveness and mercy without neglecting justice. With all this in mind I see good reason that I should hope for everything you have posted turns out best for you, that you will continue to hope that all will work out – and so you should act as though it will – regardless of whatever you sacrifice or change in the process.

I am convinced that the best outcome for you will only have possibility through your personal hope. That of all things that you can do, only a hope for better will provide the motivation necessary to continue with an attitude most likely for success. Hope is never overrated – if anything (I believe) it is underrated.

[Watcher]

I have heard many say that they have a personal relationship with Christ – I honestly do not know what that means. I have had a personal relationship with a few general authorities. This means to me that if I should call them on the phone or come across them somewhere, they will know who I am – no introduction is needed. Unfortunately, there are currently no active GA that I know personally. There are a couple of current active GA that think they know me, but it is really my brother. As a side note here – Jesus said that in as much as we treat the least of his brethren – we are recognized by him. I do not think the GA are the least of his brethren.

It is quite difficult for me to have a favorite GA’s (including the Sister GA’s) though some I have know better than others. All my experiences of those I have known and how those I have known have spoken of others; there is little to doubt or fault to find – I believe it is a privilege to belong to an organization with the caliber leaders we have. Nevertheless, we all have faults and we all will at some point pass beyond this mortal realm. Seldom, for those that live long will they pass with all the dignity of how they lived – even though some would like to think so.

Not too long ago one of my mission presidents died as an inactive (emeritus) GA. We did not get along very well during my mission but became quite close later. The reason we did not get along was mostly my fault but also a misunderstanding of communications. With rare exception I have found the Saints of the restoration quite exceptional in our generation. As a scientist, I am rather outside of most Saint’s circle of doctrine that is espoused. If GA and other Church leaders can view me as their friend though I think somewhat differently – I must respect their kindness and realize that very few leaders mingle well with common folk like me that sometimes think differently.

[Watcher]

DarkJedi wrote:

Watcher wrote:

DarkJedi wrote:

That’s on you and your own perception and feelings of guilt. In the NT Jesus forgave (and/or healed) everyone who asked (and some who didn’t ask) immediately and without any requirements no matter how grievous the fault or infirmity. I firmly believe that’s the model.

Please pardon me if I ask too much. You have not experienced certain temptations to be more difficult for you to ignor than others?

I thought we were talking about sin and repentance, shuv, metanoeo. But now that you mention it, I am very tempted by the razzleberry pie on the kitchen counter. I will probably succumb more than once today, and will likely add ice cream at least once.

What I was trying to say was church members and many other Christians have a misplaced sense of guilt, and we’ve managed to conflate repentance and penance. Penance is indeed part of the teachings of many Christian faiths, but not all. Repentance (shuv, metanoeo) and penance are not the same thing and if we look at the examples of Jesus forgiving and healing in the New Testament (and in 3 Nephi) we see that there is no penance involved in repentance and forgiveness/healing.

Pres. Nelson understands the concept of metanoeo and spoke about it directly once, but alludes to (and doesn’t talk about penance) relatively frequently (thus his station higher on my list of favorite living 15 apostles). In April 2019 Elder Nelson said the following:

Quote:

Too many people consider repentance as punishment—something to be avoided except in the most serious circumstances. But this feeling of being penalized is engendered by Satan. He tries to block us from looking to Jesus Christ, who stands with open arms, hoping and willing to heal, forgive, cleanse, strengthen, purify, and sanctify us.

The word for repentance in the Greek New Testament is metanoeo. The prefix meta- means “change.” The suffix -noeo is related to Greek words that mean “mind,” “knowledge,” “spirit,” and “breath.”

Thus, when Jesus asks you and me to “repent,” He is inviting us to change our mind, our knowledge, our spirit—even the way we breathe. He is asking us to change the way we love, think, serve, spend our time, treat our wives, teach our children, and even care for our bodies.

Nothing is more liberating, more ennobling, or more crucial to our individual progression than is a regular, daily focus on repentance. Repentance is not an event; it is a process. It is the key to happiness and peace of mind. When coupled with faith, repentance opens our access to the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

He is not the only one to teach about the concept. Elder Theodore Burton of the Seventy also taught about it (as well as shuv) in a 1985 address at BYU.

Quote:

When the New Testament was translated into Latin for the use of the common people who spoke that language, an unfortunate choice was made in translation. “Metaneoeo” was translated into the word “poenitere.” The root “poen” in that word is the same root found in our English words punish, penance, penitent, and repentance. So the beautiful meaning of Hebrew and Greek was changed in Latin to an ugly meaning involving hurting, punishing, whipping, cutting, mutilating, disfiguring, starving, or even torturing. Small wonder then that most people have come to fear and dread the word repentance which they were taught and now understand to mean repeated or neverending punishment. People must somehow be made to realize that the true meaning of repentance is that we do not require people to be punished or to punish themselves, but to change their lives so they can escape eternal punishment. If they have this understanding, it will relieve their anxiety and fears and become a welcome and treasured word in our religious vocabulary.

There are in addition other BYU talks and scholarly articles on the subject.

I think another issue many have is a misunderstanding of what constitutes sin as opposed to the mistakes and learning experiences we came here to experience, which is part of the plan – God expects us to do so (IOW, we can’t honestly think or believe God was surprised when their children messed up). I don’t think anybody explains this better than Fiona and Terryl Givens in All Things New, Rethinking Sin, Salvation, and Everything in Between. It”s not a long read, and very worth it.

The atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance (turning toward God, returning to God) are not the back up plan – they are the plan.

Thank you for your most kind and thoughtful response.

[Watcher]

DarkJedi wrote:

Watcher wrote:

DarkJedi wrote:

Agreed. I think the construct of some sins being more egregious than others comes from men, not God (and it appears to be more of an LDS thing than with other Christians, probably thanks to Alma). If God truly can’t look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, all sin would be just as unallowable. So the universalist in me believes all of us will be forgiven and all will be reunited with God (who says that is their work and glory). Also, I think that what we view as sin might not be the same as what God views as sin, and agree with Givens (inAll Things New and other sources) on the matter.

I have discovered with my own sins – some are much more difficult to repent of and turn away from than others.

That’s on you and your own perception and feelings of guilt. In the NT Jesus forgave (and/or healed) everyone who asked (and some who didn’t ask) immediately and without any requirements no matter how grievous the fault or infirmity. I firmly believe that’s the model.

Please pardon me if I ask too much. You have not experienced certain temptations to be more difficult for you to ignor than others?

[Watcher]

DarkJedi wrote:

Watcher wrote:

I sometimes wonder if there is truly an unforgivable sin. My conclusion is, that with G-d there is no unforgivable sin, however, with varying individuals there appear to be quite a vast array of unforgivable sins.

Agreed. I think the construct of some sins being more egregious than others comes from men, not God (and it appears to be more of an LDS thing than with other Christians, probably thanks to Alma). If God truly can’t look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, all sin would be just as unallowable. So the universalist in me believes all of us will be forgiven and all will be reunited with God (who says that is their work and glory). Also, I think that what we view as sin might not be the same as what God views as sin, and agree with Givens (inAll Things New and other sources) on the matter.

I have discovered with my own sins – some are much more difficult to repent of and turn away from than others.

[Watcher]

I sometimes wonder if there is truly an unforgivable sin. My conclusion is, that with G-d there is no unforgivable sin, however, with varying individuals there appear to be quite a vast array of unforgivable sins.

[Watcher]

I can’t say I am an expert – not sure if I know what an expert is but I think there is two things going on. The first thing is an evolution of porn and two, an evolution of what we think is porn. I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s and back then as a young man we all knew what porn was and to see porn took effort and knowledge of what you were doing. Accidents were possible but extremely rare. I would say that now days – if one utilizes the web for news, research, entertainment or anything else – they will encounter soft porn at a minimum – whenever the internet is used.

For example, if one views MSNBC, CNN or FOX main page for news summary – at least one article (complete with tag line pictures) will be what I consider soft porn. I remember one of my first dates when I was old enough to drive, I took a young lady to a movie and we both were so embarrassed that we walked out. A couple of years back the same movie was on a family channel, and I watched it again (with my now wife) and I could not figure out what it was so many years ago that embarrassed me and my date.

My impression is that porn is infecting succeeding generations worse than the previous generations. I do not know but there may be individuals that do not think they have a problem that 60 years ago would be as bad as what was available. [moderated comment that was speculative, offensive, and unrelated to the remainder of the post] I do not believe the Church is immune and possibly porn is more distractive than in the general population – that is not attempting to spiritually learn and improve.

[Watcher]

Roy wrote:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/im-atheist-grew-religious-household-130000236.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFR3Np9ew2hxAgNwJ3ldNU5Qz6fRYONAUV6woUMT2jy58MHSrqLEsGVhIcbnyU4dohaI04_M3HcWesEXaMyLbFcdnHk1_As6ZWRhzeZr2dHwe8xKsWu5aPQLsW_q3KPYRha80-jaS8EU7x8Q6JNV_uVpgdDMobYom7pbR6Fn2UKA

I feel that there are some interesting parallels in this article between the journey of this young queer woman and us in the StayLDS crowd. (I’m not 100% sure what queer means in this context but the author uses the descriptor, so I will too)

………….

Quote:

Navigating these conversations will be challenging, and as our son grows up and perhaps shows more interest in their beliefs, we will have to adapt. I don’t want to tell him that I think my parents are wrong, but I will tell him that theirs is just one of the many ways that humans understand the universe.

Lots of ideas and ways to add meaning or context to mans place in the universe. There is beauty and hope to be found there … mixed in with some rubbish too.

The first point is that often people (including children) confuse their values or hide their values because they think their values are not popular or may be rejected by those close to them (those in families or close friends). The book strongly suggested that it is important to do two things concerning other’s values. The first is to never demean a person for their values and always respect their values. The second is to clarify your own values to them. The reason to clarify your own values is because if you do not (according to the book) the other person will not have any reason to think that your values and beliefs are sincere.

For me – concerning man’s place in the universe. Two principles: 1. Anything that can happen or occur can be made to happen again if there is intelligence that understands all the parameters and how to duplicate what caused the occurrence. 2. If evolution can occur in this universe, then at some point there is, of necessity, a point in which intelligence (humans) can evolve to create a universe.

I would be most interested in any other points of view about what is possible in this universe – especially any point of view different than my own.

[Watcher]

I would take a different approach. As modern scientist has studied our universe one principle that is believed is that the universe is isotropic. This basically means that the laws of physics remain throughout the universe and that the universe is consistent. As we observe our own solar system, we realize that life as we know it is unique to earth. The universe is very harsh towards life as we think we know life. As abundant as life is here on earth – survival of life on earth is very tenuous. 99.9% of all species that have existed on earth are currently extinct. What is also interesting is that earth is so harsh towards life that it is believe that all life on earth has evolved from a single source of life. That there are no secondary sources. Even the single source of life is so difficult to establish that the popular notion now is that the origins of life started somewhere else and somehow got here to earth.

Intelligent life is ever rarer. For hundreds of millions of years various species evolved on earth but only intelligent life has evolved in a matter of a few thousands of years. But now that intelligent man has evolved the primary threat to mankind is mankind itself. As I have read through this thread all of the travesties of justice are the sole responsibility of man. But the ill treatments of man to man is not a recent phenomenon. All ancient civilizations employed slavery. Religion has not been as reasonable as one would hope. The great Christina king Charlemagne spread Christianity to northern Europe with a brutal slash and burn method. If even one person in a city refused Christian baptism the city was burned to the ground and all its inhabitants murdered. Charlemagne killed more people in northern Europe than all the occurrences of the Black Plague.

As bad as Charlemagne was, he had a good side – he is the founder of universal teaching standards which is where the term University comes from in our modern society. For all of us that hold a college degree – we have benefited from his influence. He was also very influenceable in the Books that form the modern Bible. For all his doing he was pronounced by the Pope – “Defender of the Faith”.

When Europe came to the Bahamas, they discovered the Lucayan peoples. These people were so peaceful that they had no word in their language for war and the only weapons they used were for hunting. But the Lucayan people would not convert to Christianity – there is no record of even a single individual conversion. The result is utter and complete genocide – all the DNA traces of the Lucayan are gone.

We are told in scripture that our labors to survive and feed ourselves will not be easy but rather we will be met with torments. Our LDS doctrine explicitly informs us that the natural tendencies of mankind it the enemy of G-d, which I assume includes his compassion and mercy. In addition, the only possible outcome of life is death. But there is a caveat that there will be a restoration of life as a gift from G-d – we call the restoration the resurrection. This resurrection is made possible by what we call in modern English – The Atonement. The Apostle Paul tells us in scripture that if we hope for Christ (G-d) in this life only we are of all men most miserable.

There is no hope without G-d and the only possibility of hope come through the resurrection of Christ. I believe this is the good spoken of concerning the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The evil is the suffering and death we experience so that one day we will stand before G-d with the complete knowledge of good and evil – I believe we will be able to honestly express to Him our agency to immerse or center ourselves in all that is good or choose some of the fun and popular things we experienced with evil.

[Watcher]

It is my personal impression that one of the most misunderstood relationships in current western culture is monogamy (or marriage however it is defined). I was quite unprepared for marriage when my wife and I started ours. After the birth of our first child, I realized that the sacrifice of a mother is exponentially greater than that of a father. I think it is foolish and counterproductive to think or speculate about the birth of a human life unless there is a biological father and biological mother. I have come to realize that because of her commitments to our children that she is much more connected to then and their needs both physically and spiritually.

I believe that marriage is a partnership and I often hear that it is an equal partnership but, in all honesty, I do not see that way. It is obvious to me that the contributions of women in marriage is greater than that of men. My wife and I are older now, empty nesters (about to become great grandparents) and yet she is still the key to every good thing in our relationship and the most binding influence of our family through the succeeding generations.

I speculate that marriage is divinely designed for the primary benefit of women because they deserve it the most because of what is required of them. I speculate more; that if polygamy is an eternal construct that it must benefit women even more than monogamy does. And yet I have never encountered much concerning what blessing in eternity that are specific and unique for women. Jesus said that the greatest effort in heaven is that of service (a servant). My current plan is to turn all that I acquire in the resurrection towards service to my wife. If there is polygamy anywhere in my eternal intents, it will only be because my wife sees and realizes a need for it. For all my imaginations – I do not understand eternity beyond what binds me to my wife and family.

I believe that many problems in our current society is the singularity of self-interest and efforts to fulfill personal wants and needs. I am concerned that personal wants and needs are counter to marriage – especially between a man and a woman that are physically different. Perhaps the greatest achievement is not succeeding in fulfilling what we personally want, desire and need but in realizing and fulfilling the wants, desires and needs of others. Which I believe to be the results of agency and the great plan of salvation.

[Watcher]

PazamaManX wrote:

…..

Watcher wrote:

I could use some pointers (perhaps volumes of suggestions) as to how I could be more of a help and comfort to those in need of comfort.

…

What is help and support for those with mental difficulties? Should there be any expectations?

For me, and I imagine for others, expectations were exactly the problem. Growing up in the church, I was no different than any other young man hearing that I needed to prepare for and serve a mission. Those who didn’t go or came home early were talked about and thought of negatively. Even those who decided to serve in the military instead of a mission were looked down upon by people in my ward.

Knowing all of this while I was out on my mission put me in the difficult position of continuing to suffer emotionally or coming home early and being thought less of by the only community I had known in my life up to that point. The solution my mind went to was hurting myself just bad enough to get sent home. Breaking my leg is what I had seriously contemplated and actually tried a time or two (no one knew about those attempts, so the criticalness of my mental state was not known to anyone, but me). That way, I thought, I could at least say I was sent, rather than chose, to come home. Thankfully for my leg, my new mission president had been talking to Salt Lake about what he should do (he did know that I was having a hard time at least) and they said to send me home for mental health reasons.

As for what can be done to support people who have those difficulties, the practice I’ve adopted is that I do not try to sway anyone one way or the other. I won’t encourage someone to go, because that is what led to my difficulties. But, I won’t tell someone that they shouldn’t go either, since I know that there are many who have had good experiences and loved their mission. I simply support someone in whatever their decision is, and encourage them to be sure they are doing something because it is what they want to do, and not what other’s want for them.

Thank you for your response.

When I arrived in my mission, I was sort of a rising star. My first mission president and I got along great. He would call me a couple of times a month just to talk and I was quickly made a district leader under him. My second mission president and I did not get along very well; until much after both of us were released and he became a general authority. Part of the problem is that I very much disliked being a mission leader (Actually I do not like being a leader of anything anymore than I enjoy being told what I must do).

I saved and paid for my mission, and I did not like spending my time (and saved money) dealing with other missionaries. I thought I was called to teach non-members. When I was asked how many missionaries served in my mission – I would answer, “About half of them.” I did not dislike those having difficulty – I just did not want to spend my time with them. As my own sons became of age – I encouraged then to prepare but to go must be 100% their decision. One son chose not to serve a mission – to this day he says it is because I did not tell him to. It is odd that he is the most active in the church of my sons.

I do not think that much on if someone was a missionary or not. I also try to help anyone that indicates to me that they want help. I do not know how to deal with someone that accepts a calling – or any position (church or otherwise), then says nothing, does not seek help to complete a task or puts minimal effort into what they should be or said they would be doing. My wife can motivate people – but I do not motivate very well. I will never be a bishop and it does not bother me at all. I am impressed with those that can comfort at such times. My wife tells me that I need better filters.

I am grateful for those like yourself that can connect and have true sympathy with struggling missionaries – or others. Sometimes I feel like the odd one out at church. I do not understand why those that struggle – do not connect. I had a friend that said that they were in a ward that was hard to make friends – I suggested that he tell everyone that he was going inactive so that he would be fellowshipped and befriended. I think I am more of a problem at church than you.

[Watcher]

A story from my youth. As a young man my bishop was a survivor of WWII. He was a tank commander that fought across Africa and then across Italy. Over 90% of those he started with had been killed in combat. When the war concluded his tank was in great need of repair. On a rainy day in Italy, he was working on his tank that was broken down – trying to get it going again. His cloths were worn and tattered and had not been washed for over a month. He was dirty and had not bathed for over a week. They had just received word that the war was over in Europe that morning. It was just after noon when a relatively clean Jeep came down a dirt road and stopped near when he was working. A young washed private got out of the Jeep in clean and pressed fatigues. The lad was careful to jump from one clump of grass to another to avoid getting his spit shined boots muddy.

When the lad approached my bishop, he handed him orders to leave immediately to return home and be released from the military. My bishop expressed to me that he was concerned that the private had no idea what it had been like for my bishop in his military service. And yet they served in the same war. Both would on their return home be considered much the same. Yet one would have endured much more than the other.

It is my impression that we all face difficulties – sometimes the difficulties we face are different from what others face and often we face difficulties at different points of time. I am inclined to think that those with more recent difficulties tend to believe others do not understand their difficulties – which can be true. But we are advised not to judge others in a condemning manner regardless of how long or how recent we faced our difficulties.

Let us love one another – not as the natural man loves exclusively those that love them but as G-d loves – because we are good. Because I know I should always love others – what concerns me the most is when I have difficulty loving others – not so much as when others seem to me, to have difficulty loving me

[Watcher]

Old-Timer wrote:

Exactly.

I gave a talk in church years ago about charity and used this parable to make that point directly. I essentially said:

Quote:

“Whom do you see as so sinful that you would cringe if you had to associate with them? What if they walked into the chapel in the middle of the sacrament? Someone who was stumbling drunk or smoking a cigarette? Two men holding hands who obviously were in a relationship? A young women in skimpy shorts and a tank top with gang tattoos and spiked hair? Someone wearing a full burka? A specific politician with whom you disagree strongly?

Would your reaction be, “You can’t be here!” or, “Thank God you found us.”

Even more importantly, do you seek actively to associate with and get to know these people?

My parents use to tell me that a kind person is not kind when kindness is expected but kind when kindness is not expected by anyone. I have struggled this kind of kindness as long as I can remember. I can love everybody with the exception of those I do not like. I am convinced I can love anyone that I learn to like so I struggle trying to figure out how to like certain types of people.

[Watcher]

Just a short follow up. My actions eventually lead to my starting my consulting business. Something I should have done much early in my life. In hindsight, had I been more wise, I could have taken a number of other engineers into my consulting business had I acted sooner but I have known since my youth that I am not a head of others type. My dear wife that is such a type and often encourages me to exercise more filtering of what I say to others.

As for the company – It has been sold several times and currently struggles to hold on to their remaining 15%(-) market share. Because of this event and other – I have become convinced that many great leaders of themselves are not so talented as it was that they gather around them great followers. As much as the general authorities are praised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe that what makes this Church exceptional is in the strength of the very common but willing members in the front lines filling the almost not noticed and not so glorious callings in much excess of their talents and abilities.

[Author]

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