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Hey Bec, here’s a late welcome to the forum for you. Interesting resignation letter. I almost feel like writing a much more professional resignation letter for people to use if that’s the only thing that’s out there; kind of a weird desire, but it’s in my nature, I guess.
beccaboo wrote:When i tried asking members of the church i was shut down very quickly, and gossiped about just as quickly.
You definitely aren’t the first and won’t be the last. One of my dearest friends left the church very young because of the cultural taboo against asking certain questions. Hopefully one day we can get that to change.I hope you are able to find what you are looking for, either here or elsewhere. Peace can be difficult to find, but it’s definitely not impossible.
Quote:Why didn’t I feel anything? Did I ask in the wrong way? I really wanted to know, so why didn’t I feel anything? It makes me question even further. I just don’t know what to believe anymore.
Have any of you had a similar experience? What do you do to feel the Spirit?
There are no straightforward answers to your questions. And honestly I think that’s a good thing.I don’t believe the Spirit is something that can be turned on and off depending on how much spiritual electricity we have wired up to the switch. In the church, we’re taught that the Spirit leaves us when we aren’t worthy for it, and that when we ignore it, it’s more difficult to detect, as if it’s a mental muscle we need to exercise like creativity or self-discipline (and maybe it is for some). While I’ve had personal experiences in my life where my feeling very distinct impressions, which I attribute to the Spirit, came during some of the most TBM periods of my life, I’ve noticed that throughout my life, no matter how spiritual or close to the Church’s orthodox teachings I’ve been, I’ve found some sort of guidance. It was usually in the form of coincidences, of outside reassurances and sources, with next to no accompanying “burning in the bosom.” And on reflection, it’s led me to believe that the Spirit isn’t the end all for how God and whatever fantastic laws govern the universe communicates with and helps us.
None of us have an answer on why you didn’t feel any powerful emotions or have an experience that you could attribute to the Spirit. Despite what we learn in the Church culture, I don’t believe there’s one single right or wrong way to feel the Spirit.
I don’t know if it will help, but here is one of my favorite quotes:
Quote:Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. -Albert Einstein
Switching that into spiritual terms, everybody can find guidance from God. But if you judge yourself by your ability to feel the Spirit in the same way and using the same process as the person sitting next to you, you will end up believing that you’re doing something wrong.
Not all of us can learn through feeling the Spirit. In recent times, I have imagined God more and more like a really great, wise parent. He knows how you learn. He gives us the best information we need according to our learning style. And then He trusts us to make an informed decision.
When I was going through my FC, before I started on my faith transition, there were many days where I begged and pleaded with God for an answer and for help. You know what? I don’t recall feeling what I identified as the Spirit even once. But I look back on the past few months and reflect on where I am now every once in a while, and I see the answers there, subtly hiding in the form of a quote that came right when I needed it most. In the views of a casual friend during a long drive. I don’t believe in coincidences. I do believe in logic and correlation. The God I believe in knows that.
Heber13 wrote:Someone reminded me recently Prayer is for us, not for God. In that same thought…believing the existence of God is for us, not Him. He’ll exist or not, whether I believe it or not. So…I better get on with life and become who I am supposed to become.
I love that. Thank you.Deep breath, friend. As others have recommended, don’t take any drastic steps. I know how you feel. Many if not most of us here are familiar with the letter you refer to. I encountered it during my own FC, and I also felt the same feelings you are feeling now. It’s been several months since my FC, and I am now into the faith transition stage. I have managed to find great peace, retain my logic as well as my faith, and stay LDS. I don’t say this because I except you to do the same, but because I want you to know that it is very possible to stay LDS and balance logic, science, evidence, and faith successfully. It will be a slow, gradual process. But it is possible to find peace.
Heber13 wrote:Eternity4me wrote:With all the questions that surround the BoM, and the actual history that seems to cast so much doubt, can I really stay LDS?
Absolutely. And many people do it as proof of this.
Yep, I’m one of those people. Like I said, it is very possible. However, it may not be for everyone. That is only for you to decide. BUT you don’t have to decide now, and you shouldn’t. Take some time. Process. Share. Ask for advice and support. There were many days during the initial few days of my FC where the pain was nearly overwhelming for me, and many days where I broke down crying in my car or my bedroom. It took me several weeks (and that’s relatively fast) to be able to start to come to peace with things, and at the end, I determined that I was OK staying LDS. It just means I have to keep my mouth shut a lot more than I normally do, because I also determined that no one else would start doubting because of me.Eternity4me wrote:I am literally sick to my stomach and can’t talk about this with anyone. It is truly frightening. It’s like my foundation that was getting a little rocky is literally crumbling around me. How do you all do it and overlook such glaring issues?
At least in my case, I wouldn’t say I’ve overlooked the glaring issues. I will happily discuss and analyze any of them with anyone offering a pleasant, non-confrontational discussion. We do that here in the forum for many topics. The trick isn’t overlooking the issues. It’s facing them, fighting them, and winning some level of peace. It’s not something you have to do alone, though.From one of my favorite memes: “So you’ve hit rock bottom? A solid foundation.”
Of course, your foundation feels like it’s crumbling. Yeah. I was there. I think most if not all of us were at one time or another. But that can be a good thing. That gives you the opportunity to determine for yourself what you believe. You don’t have to rely on the foundations of others. You can now build your own.
Take a deep breath, friend. It’s not an easy path to be on. But you aren’t alone on it.
Quote:“The good times and the bad times both will pass. It will pass. It will get easier. But the fact that it will get easier does not mean that it doesn’t hurt now. And when people try to minimize your pain they are doing you a disservice. And when you try to minimize your own pain you’re doing yourself a disservice. Don’t do that. The truth is that it hurts because it’s real. It hurts because it mattered. And that’s an important thing to acknowledge to yourself. But that doesn’t mean that it won’t end, that it won’t get better. Because it will.”
-John Green
Hello, Just A Girl. Welcome to the forum. 
Quote:I seem to attract these people as friends all the time, as well. They’re great people, and I’m not saying I hate them at all. They’re my friends, but they’re very, very conservative. I hate it when they diss on things that I believe in, or when I’m scolded for thinking differently than them. It’s always been this way, but all I want are friends who can think like me and agree with me.
I feel the same way at times. Many people in my family, such as my parents, and many of the people I grew up with and consider lifelong friends are super conservative. Sometimes they say just the meanest things about opposing political viewpoints, and it really hurts, because I became fairly opposite of them in college. Nowadays, I’ve been able to find a more “liberal” group of friends, many former or inactive members, who are still accepting of the Church standards I choose to live by, and it’s made my social life so much easier, but it took me until college and after college to find them. I don’t know where you are in your life, but rest assured that those friends are out there for you. And at the very least, there’s this forum.Quote:And I really hate to say it, but sometimes I’m ashamed of being LDS because of how we’re seen by people who don’t know much about us.
I usually don’t care about how other people view me, but I have had instances where people seem to feel sorry for me or wary of me (or even surprised) when they find out I identify as LDS. It’s been interesting.Quote:I don’t think I’ll ever leave the church, but I can see myself going very inactive. My parents would be so heartbroken if that were the case, and I think they’re also what have kept me going. But as much as I love them, I’d rather go to church for myself than for anyone. And right now, I feel like I’ve just been going to please the people around me. Obviously, I’ve got LOTS of problems…
I do encourage you to find a way to stay in the church for yourself. I’m pretty sure I’ll also never leave the Church completely, because there are things within it that I find value in, and I have come to peace with some (not all) of the parts of the Church that I struggle with. The reasons that keeps those of us here going (if we do go) are widely varied and personal, so while we can offer advice, you’re going to have to find the answer on your own, eventually.I myself am still struggling with the whole parental thing, too. I’ve started making some choices that I know my parents wouldn’t approve of — such as who I choose to hang out with and date (i.e. non-Mormons) and how much of Church I choose to attend (usually just sacrament meeting and maybe SS). It can be a frustrating and lonely road trying to please the people you care deeply about, because you don’t want to hurt them. But eventually, it comes down to finding a balance between what pleases them and what’s best for you.
So as you can see, we’ve all got problems here, and you are very welcome to come and share yours to find experience and advice from the rest of us.
Ray, thank you for continuing to stick around so diligently. The amount of moderation from you and the other admins that goes on in this forum definitely has the right effect that you are intending; I personally feel very comfortable in this forum and that it is the godsend I was looking for in my time of crisis, and I know others feel the same. Thank you for keeping this forum the safe haven it is intended to be. Thank you for the introduction, Looking. Quote:I now feel that it is my duty to find out for myself if what they are saying is true. If I don’t and I either follow it all or ignore it all I am relinquishing my moral obligation.
This is one of the main points I took out of my FC. The God I believe in holds free agency in very high regard, and as such, I can’t imagine he would approve of us blindly following everything someone says simply because of their position — we have the agency to decide for ourselves and the necessity to be vigilant.Quote:He has sent others to talk with me, but so far nobody has taken him up on it.
That is really cool that you have such a supportive bishop and friend. One day, someone will take him up on the offer.Thanks for sharing here on the forum. Looking forward to many more posts.
I saw this news pop up on my Twitter feed earlier today (got to follow the Trib for all that good local news the other stations don’t pick up), and I also considered it an “it’s about time” sort of thing. The church seems to be doing a lot of these minor changes lately. Or maybe it’s just now that I’m post-FC, I’m just looking for them more often. Out of curiosity, I asked one of my friends about what she and her family thought of the essays. They hadn’t heard about them at all, and when I explained what they were about, she was completely unfazed and told me she’d known about many of the polygamy and polyandry facts for years and that they were taught in her classes. She moved around to many different states in the US, though, so she had her own individual church experience. And that made it so this one single fact was not unsettling at all. One of the (more minor issues) I’ve had with the church and really just society in general is the blatant generalizations. But that’s another topic.
I also haven’t heard it said exactly like that, but yeah, I’ve definitely gotten the impression throughout my life in the church that good things will happen if you’re faithful, and if bad things are happening, then it’s likely you aren’t just faithful enough, and you just need to change something and try harder at being a good person. I think that just like with superstitions, something correlated with something else enough times that people start believing one causes the other and the coincidences were indicative with something more. I say that, though, from the standpoint of coming from a family with experiences like Heber’s uncle — there are things that happened to our family that we cannot logically explain, the type of blessings and even some miracles that came consistently after following certain counsels from the church, such as tithing and mission attendance. The formula, as Heber describes it, works incredibly well for my family, and those experiences are one of the reasons why I believe the Church is “true” for certain people. I’ve stated before in other threads that I don’t believe coincidences are just coincidences.
On the other hand, I know in particular one couple who were each individually miserable and each in abusive, manipulative marriages before leaving the church and meeting each other. And now they are insanely successful and happy and some of my dearest, kindest friends.
As part of my FC, I had to reteach myself that the “forsaking the Gospel and losing your job” belief wasn’t going to fly with my beliefs. Not everyone can become who they are meant to be within the church. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be what a lot of TBM feel.
Ray, I love that part of Mormon theology as well. I’ve never thought of it so clearly, though, so thanks for putting it into great words. My sister and I have talked about the existence of God recently when she came clean to me that she only identifies herself as Mormon to our parents and our younger siblings for their sake (she married her husband in the temple, but they both pretty much did it to make our families happy, and they are both, luckily, happy to pursue their spirituality elsewhere). If there is no God, then we have nothing to worry about. If there is a God and He is loving, then He will also be just and understanding and He will not, so to speak, judge a fish against a monkey on its ability to climb a tree. If there is a God and He is very strict and unforgiving, then, well, I guess we each have to decide if that is a God that we wish to spend our entire mortal existence attempting to please.
Welcome, 1gentlespirit, and hello. Thank you for sharing your story. I am sure there are many who would benefit from hearing your point of view here, and I hope you are able to find the peace you need. Quote:Healthy families, it seems to me, find the threads of happy experience that connect them, and celebrate and magnify those joys to create a sense of family identity. And when they hurt each other by misunderstanding, they apologize and try harder to remember the things that they love and can share.
That not only applies to healthy families in the traditional definition, but healthy communities and cultures.Short, simple, but very, very great. That is an example of the type of culture I wish for all the church.
