[West]

I’ve been busy with mission prep, so I haven’t had a chance to come reply until now, and even tonight I’ve only a few minutes.

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your viewpoints. Sometimes my mind just needs to see how others think about and approach an issue before becoming more comfortable with it in my life. I have a lot of thoughts now to take with me when I got to the temple next, and that puts me so much more at ease. Thank you!

[West]

nibbler wrote:

For me it’s better than what we regularly do in the rest of the church outside of the temple. Outside the temple the focus seems to be literal interpretations, the questions asked often follow literal interpretations, answers often follow literal interpretations. In the temple it’s the opposite, for me at least. I’m free to find symbolic meaning. No one is asking me leading questions, I’m free to explore what symbols I want to explore and there’s no real expectation that I answer a correlated question, get put on the spot to bear my testimony, etc.

That’s a pretty cool way to look at it, thanks! I had many people before attending and during attendance tell me just to sit back and not worry so much about the details and memorizing things and even thinking about specific wording or actions and to just enjoy it and try to make it a spiritual experience for myself. I tried, and it did help, but my logical brain just doesn’t shut up sometimes. Your advice, though, should appease logic brain to hopefully make the experience a little less uncomfortable the next times I go.

Quote:

…but how does a spirit shake a dude’s hand in greeting?

Good to know I wasn’t the only one who has puzzled over that. 😆 The quiet and lack of social interaction gave freedom to my brain to pick up all the weird logical inconsistencies while wondering if many TBM saw the movie as very literal. I guess that was a big source of my discomfort; thinking that a lot of TBMs see what goes on in the temple as being more literal than symbolic, and my trying to figure out how they think that. Oh logic brain. You make things difficult/interesting sometimes.

Quote:

You could boil the manual down to: the temple is special, no I mean super special. You’ve got to be good to go inside. You’ll learn the gospel inside. The temple blesses you so keep going.

I had the super quick crash course to get me through it over a week and a half, so it was already pretty boiled down, but man, I wish the teacher had boiled it down even more and had not just read straight from the manual. Hopefully the SP follows through and reforms the classes in our stake to be more useful to people; I’ve heard from a lot of friends who have already gone through how much of a shock it was and how the temple prep didn’t prepare them for anything. I guess sometimes their parents or other adult figures are either too worried about revealing covenanted things to properly prepare people or they just assume that if you’ve grown up in the Church, you already know everything you need to be prepared. But you know what they say about assuming. 😆

nibbler wrote:

Apparently I really like to use emoticons. :think:

Is cool, I use emoticons a ton outside of this forum and have to be very conscious about (not) using them in excess.

Thanks, nibbler!

[West]

Wow, that is a really awesome picture.

Thank you for sharing.

[West]

Just gonna say that I’m really glad I didn’t choose to go on a mission until well past college graduation. I was a very different (and immature in both personality and thought process) person before the last few years of college.

I’d give it a few more years and see what the numbers are there. I’m not sure if they’ll change, but should be interesting once we get past the big influx of missionaries from the past few years.

[West]

You sound somewhat like my sister. The more someone tells her or even hints to her that one of her choices is a bad idea, she digs in her heels and refuses to budge. In her most recent case it was marriage rather than tank tops, but what can you do. 🙄

Seriously, train yourself to not care about what other people think so much. I have that issue myself, and I’m sure most everyone does to some degree, but I’ve worked on it and have turned out some great experiences as a result. It’s a difficult thing to do, and sometimes it may be necessary to keep up certain relationships, but there’s always a point where it’s more unhealthy to live up to other people’s expectations rather than changing things around and living up to your own needs if that makes sense.

Like Dax mentioned, post-FC I don’t attend Church for approval. I sometimes go because I don’t want to deal with my parents asking me why I didn’t go, but that’s usually a lesser reason to my just wanting to go so I have some time to myself at the back of the meeting hall to sort of just focus on things and sing the hymns when they come up (I do love singing).

And like hawkgrrrl mentioned, it’s good to try to train yourself to see situations from multiple viewpoints and accept that everyone sees things from a different angle, because no one can be standing in the exact same place at the exact same time. I listen a lot to things I definitely don’t agree with and may otherwise find hurtful in Church meetings; but oftentimes when I look at people’s past experiences, I can see where they’re coming from, and that even though what they say and believe is or can be hurtful, I don’t let it affect me and instead just take it as another example of how everyone in the Church believes something slightly different, no matter what anyone tells you.

[West]

Vulcans are a humanoid species from another planet so…no, can’t technically become one.

This has been an interesting thread. I associate tears with extreme feelings on any part of the spectrum, so I just assume people crying have had an overwhelming amount of emotion, and their bodies’ response is tears. Recently, I participated in a wonderful charity event outside of the Church, and seeing how immensely grateful the benefiting family was (to the point of tears) had me and many of my manly comrades tearing up as well. That was in a positive, wonderful experience.

We’re all a little crazy here in this life. 😆

[West]

Hey, byustudent. Good to hear from you. I was just reading an article about the accreditation meeting earlier this evening. Many good points came from that, and I’m interested to see if it will have any effect whatsoever.

You’re in a very tough place. The societal pressure is immense for a young man at BYU to go on a mission, and if you don’t go, then many people assume something’s “wrong” with you. Kudos to you for knowing that it isn’t your time to go (and might never be). Not every young man should serve a mission, and it’s definitely hurtful that that pressure is so ingrained in the culture. The Church sent home 400 missionaries last month (I think it was month) due to issues such as depression, so for the record, many who go are better off staying. Eventually, your family and friends will stop asking when you’re going; my parents and family members stopped asking my younger brother when he was going to go after a few years.

Of course, he went to Utah State, so the pressure may likely be a bit different. I’ve no idea, since I went to Weber. I almost transferred to Utah State, though, in my fourth or fifth year of college. I felt trapped at Weber doing the same old thing, and a friend encouraged me to transfer with her up to USU. I couldn’t that semester, so I told her I’d probably do it the semester after. I ended up staying at Weber and finishing my schooling there. That path has taken me into some pretty incredible experiences. I guess what I’m trying to say is to take things one semester at a time.

I don’t know if your unhappiness with where you are will pass. I do know that in my case, I had to take a step back from trying to force myself to enjoy what I thought I should enjoy about my school and institute and instead sought out the things that I did enjoy. Happiness is something many of us humans strive for our entire lives. Sometimes we find it, only to have it fade, and we have to go looking for it again.

Is there a hobby or interest that has a group on campus you can participate in to reach out to friends there? Perhaps there is a group outside of the Church and outside of BYU that you can connect with. People move on, but many eventually come back, and in the meantime, you figure out ways to meet new people. The best part of being in college is you can build relationships with people at different ages and stages of life.

Feel free to vent and try to talk yourself through things here. I for one can’t offer a lot of advice, since I don’t know a whole lot about your personal situation, but we can at least offer to listen.

[West]

Welcome to the forums, spacerasta!

I sincerely wish both you and your sister the best. Sometimes, many Mormons as well as many Christians in general forget that the Gospel is centered on love. I am very glad your sister has you as part of her support system. I have seen several cases of transgender individuals coming out to their family to disastrous results; there’s really no one-size-fits-all advice I can offer except for both you and your sister to be prepared for the emotional and mental pain that family members may inflict to try to “convince” her she’s making a “mistake.” Knowing the guilt techniques that some people use doesn’t make them less hurtful when they happen, but it does offer an opportunity to plan and brace for the impact. It sounds like you’re both already somewhat aware of that, though, and my heart hurts for both of you. As an FYI, I have seen http://www.translifeline.org/ recommended as a potential resource. I also have several general suicide prevention sites that I can pass along to you if you need.

I am glad you are seeking professional help for your depression. I’ve been in that boat before, and I can emphasize. I don’t know how far you are into treatment, but if you aren’t aware already, just know that finding the right combination of treatments (medication type, dosage, etc.) is often a very rough road. In my case, I was lucky in that some over-the-counter “natural” medication managed to stabilize my mood almost instantly. I have had many friends and patients who have not been nearly so lucky.

In terms of religions advice, this forum offers a lot of great resources and viewpoints, so I suggest looking around and using the search function at your leisure to check out what’s been said about any topics that may be bothering you. I suppose my main advice is to realize that life has presented you an opportunity where you can make your religious and spiritual beliefs much more personal than they may have been before, and that can be a great thing. Like DJ said, focus on what you do believe, even if it’s just one thing. Tackle every other issue one at a time with the knowledge that it’s OK if you don’t know for sure and it’s OK to just hope and believe something is true without knowing it. You don’t have to have all the answers. Take a step back when you need to and let anyone make you feel guilty about doing so.

I hope both you and your sister can find peace.

[West]

That is such a weird activity idea. i feel like my PB has guided me to make some really awesome choices in my life that have led to great experiences and sort of an “excuse” to enjoy and take advantage of certain experiences. I don’t know how else I feel about it otherwise; perhaps, for some, it is revelation, while for others it’s just hit and miss.

Regardless, I wouldn’t share it with non-family ward members as a “fun activity” like this.

On another note, before my grandfather died, he gave a verbal blessing to each of his attending grandchildren. I was a little kid at the time, so I don’t remember much, but we did record each blessing. That was nice. And it was a very special memory.

[West]

This popped up on my Google feed earlier today, and I was hoping it would make its way here if it hadn’t already. I’ve started speaking up a bit during my own lessons or talks. Just little things presented in ways that are easy to understand. It’s actually been quite fun; the mental challenge of coming up with how to say something that gets others thinking outside of the Mormon standard answers box without directly challenging them or making them uncomfortable is enjoyable to me sometimes.

One person at a time.

[West]

I’m glad you’ve stopped by again, university. Anger is perfectly normal, although that doesn’t make it at all any easier to deal with. I initially found this forum because of my anger and my staunch desire not to go down the angry anti-Mormon path, and of course right when my FC happened, I very narrowly missed losing one of my parents to health issues–so I know somewhat how you feel, especially since I had several family members tell me how they -knew- there was an afterlife as Mormons believe. It’s tough.

I still feel anger sometimes; it’s gotten a whole lot better this year, but it still flares up every once in a while. A lot of help came from just being around a lot of unorthodox/lax and non-Mormons as friends to balance being around extremely orthodox family members, which I know isn’t an option for everyone. Like others have already suggested, though, this forum can sometimes service as an alternative. Please feel free to vent here. Many of us know what it’s like, and we’re here to listen when you need it. If you need to vent through PM, my inbox is always open.

[West]

I’m an emotional wreck, although my mood stabilizer does help a little with that. ^^

I got a little emotional while telling a personal story during my relief society lesson the other week. No tears, just a cracking voice and a lot more gestures to distract my body to keep me from crying. Am weird that way.

Some may be forced, as it were, but some of us are just leaky waterworks.

[West]

I also wouldn’t label myself as a NOM. But I suppose that is neither here nor there. ^^

I adjust very quickly to situations, so going at Mormonism the middle way is actually more freeing to me, since it’s given me the OK to change my views on things at a moment’s notice and be just fine with it. I still find myself wondering about the “truth” of things and being worried that I somehow have it wrong and the Church is 100% “the one and only way,” but I’ve started taking the stance my older sister has: if the God we believe in is truly just and forgiving and understanding, then He won’t make it matter what we believe or do so long as we try to do our best with what we have and love others. If God turns out to be as bitter and destructive as some others believe, the type of being who would sentence you to eternal punishment over not choosing the absolute “right” pile of questions, then I guess that’s my lot, and I’m not too interested in following that type of God anyway. Either way, we’ll all get to the end of life eventually, and I’d rather have lived a good life focusing more on peace and happiness rather than confusion and misery getting there.

Out of curiosity, why do you worry so much about people perceiving you as being deceived or foolish? Do they hold some sort of sway over your job or any sort of religious ordinances or those sorts of things? I ask that knowing myself and knowing that I’ve caught myself a few times trying to “explain” myself to others with the worry that they might think I’m “just another one of those crazy Utah Mormons who thinks everything is perfect.” It’s gotten easier to shut myself up, though, and stop caring what other people think of my beliefs.

Anyway, I suppose I’ve found the middle way easier by acknowledging that perfectionism as most people see it is having no fault, the basis of which is determined by the society you live in and its resulting values. I stopped looking at things from that lens and started looking at perfect (i.e. true or what have you) as something that is unique to each person and each situation, and it’s not to me to judge it for someone else, just for me. I suppose I also have a healthy combination of spiritualism and scientific logic that makes it so those intelligent arguments don’t really throw me off. They just let me adapt my beliefs accordingly. And that’s made it quite peaceful here in my middle way.

At any right, I see a lot of black and white, all wrong or all right thoughts in your main post. It’s a very standard and common thought process in the Mormon and many other religious cultures, but it also does make it a lot more difficult to go the middle way where we’re mostly and probably more comfortably in the grey.

[West]

Hi Yonni, welcome to the community here. I’m glad it’s already been of benefit to you, and I hope it continues to be so.

[West]

Answered my own question. The dissenting voters weren’t removed from the conference session.

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2365694-155/all-is-not-well-in-zion

Quote:

Unlike in the 1970s and ’80s, when opponents were removed from General Conference after voicing “no” votes, Saturday’s opponents remained for the rest of the afternoon meeting.

Also, I tried clicking on the OP article again, and it’s…gone?

[Author]

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