[wonderingcurrent]

I think that lack of lines is basically because of lack of lines in scriptures. I think its half and half with the Temple. Scriptural basis, and also a cultural/sexist bases. I tend to notice when only men are in charge, its only what men think are important that gets to be talked about.

Just a question about vieling. Does it only happen with in the circle or does every woman have to viel their face during that prayer? Would that be a good time to take a bathroom break?

[wonderingcurrent]

Hmm, I would say Yes Deborah was a prophetess in the sense of small p, but I also believe yes she was Judge over Israel. She judged Israel, they came up to her for judgement. Not just one part of Israel to, I doubt it was just one part, its just a large part of our scriptures about women I’m grateful to have. I tend to think optimistically that she was Prophetess, though she did not hold the office of a apostle, who says she didn’t have any official capacity to act in, or who says that keys have to be restricted to just the male priesthood line? I think there is much about Prophets that we just don’t understand.

Just my personal opinion. I am irked by any statement that seems to me to degrade who Deborah was and what she did. She was both Judge and Prophetess. That is a huge deal. And I believe she must have had some authority upon her to do so.

[wonderingcurrent]

cwald wrote:

Kind of a side note: I made the comment this weekend to the 1st councilor on the BP, that we could solve a lot of our problems staffing the branch if the church would allow the females to exercise their priesthood. Nope – it did not go over very well at all.

Oh how I agree, we would solve a lot of problems: Missionary levels, Inactivity rates among men and women, what you mentioned about staffing problems. I wouldn’t call what females power a priesthood though, give us some respect, we are Female, not male, so therefore it would be Priestesshood not priesthood. Of course, with the current church lexion, that just doesn’t bold well does it for that change? Of course I also believe that God’s word for this power and our word for this power are two completely different things, and so he speaks our language when communicating with Fallen Patriarchal mortals, which just leads things into a conundrum. (hehehe, I think I may be digressing, then again probably not)

Sigh, well fasting again this Sunday for softened hearts for all for more revelation on women, Heavenly Mother in particular, lets see how that goes.

As for The Men Presides, my dear fiance and I have decided presiding, nurturing, protecting, providing, we will do that in our own way. I though am still in the middle of shedding what I have been taught to believe. It’s a hard long process.

[wonderingcurrent]

Well, I don’t like patriarchy, and I am trying to see things as symbolic of Christ and the Church (as his bride), but I am having a hard time still even with that concept which still has much patriarchy in it.

I just haven’t come to peace with patriarchy, probably won’t. I just feel that its cultural, and caused by the fall, and our mortal minds being stupid sometimes tend to believe it is of God, when it’s really just of men. I think we could do without one line in the Family a proclamation that is talking about Gender roles. Gender is essential yes, the roles those genders play not so much. Do women have responsibility to nurture their children? Should men protect their families? Absolutely, but to exclude the presiding role from them in that document, Which in fact it is doing, even if it says, “Primary role” when you put Divine design in front of something you tend to make it the Sole role. Are these roles though even to one or the other? In the Scriptures, Puah and her fellow midwife, saved the male hebrew babies from an extermination order from Pharaoh, and I’m certain if all children where ordered to be exterminated they would have saved both males and females. They did it to keep God’s commandments, but also because it was right, it wasn’t easy, and they where blessed with protection because of it. Though that emphasizes women and children (of course it would) it still puts these Women in a place of being deliverers of Israel, from Pharaoh before Moses was even old enough to know he was a Hebrew child. How is that not a protecting role? How can we state in the Family a Proclamation That women only nurture? This is simply cultural to me.

I balk at the idea I will forever be First Counselor in my family, to my Bishop-Husband only to lead them when he isn’t around. I love the Priesthood, I don’t like the way we interpret said priesthood. I know the Priesthood has responsiblity but in a cold analysis, it is simply to administer the Church, and provide the ordinances of the Gospel. In fact to me most of the scriptures rarely if ever have anything to do with the Home but with the Church. And I also believe Adam didn’t have the priesthood to begin with, that the Priesthood was only organized after wickedness entered the world. Adam gave sacrifices with his wife Eve, meaning that what we call the Priesthood now, probably had a far different name and meaning, before wickedness entered the world. Meaning that I don’t think she just assisted, but I think she had an integral part in it. Far more then we know, but we could (and I digress, that could be another thread)

I don’t believe in a Priesthood/Motherhood equation, I believe in a Priesthood/Priestesshood equation, and I believe in a Fatherhood/Motherhood equation. And I believe that because we lack the understanding of the priestesshood we lack the understanding of Motherhood therefore we lack an understanding of a woman’s true responsibility and role with in our church. (And that can be another thread, I’m on a roll, Hope I make sense 🙄 )

Just my thoughts. I though right now am trying as a woman to go to the Temple for the First time, and am really up in arms about just a few phrases. (specifically Priestess to husband not God, Hearken to Husband as He hearkens to the Lord, Give yourself to Husband but he doesn’t give himself to me, Give him your name, but he doesn’t give me his name, And the whole vieling of women’s faces in the temple, I had a dream about this I count as revelation, and I just don’t think I can viel my face at all) Please help me!, If I have to post this someplace or make a new thread, please let me know.

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