[wornoutsneakers]

nibbler wrote:

The bottom line for me: there is far too much measuring in the church. How many times did you attend priesthood? What’s your HT/VT percentage? How many exchanges did you go on with the missionaries? Are you a full tithe payer? etc. I’m sure it’s all with the best of intentions, things like that can help leaders quickly assess who needs help. The problem is that all of these measurements introduce unrighteous judgment into the fray – whether the judgment is real or simply perceived. The judgment can also be purely internal, judging ourselves using artificial measuring sticks. I think that’s the real issue, we often feel unrelenting judgment from all sides, even from within, and it becomes difficult to love ourselves if we feel that way.

Nibbler,

I agree that there is alot of judgement at church. Probably the most disturbing testimony i heard was from a life long member this past month. This older brother based his testimony, on fast day, on a young lady he met at a retail store. For 10 minutes he joked and made fun of her for the fact that she was living with her boyfriend before they got married. What really disturbed me was that everyone on the stand and several people in the chapel just snickered and laughed the whole time. I thought about the unwed single mothers in the chapel that had recently converted. I wondered how that made them feel? The event has played over in my mind several times and has not set well with me. I think that members of the church are so well ingrained, due to the LDS culture, to compare and judge that they dont even realize when they are being judgemental. I wont even consider now asking the single moms where i work to come to my church now. In fact, it has pushed me farther away from the church. When i shared my feelings about this with someone they didnt even respond, they had no problem with what he said. And our leaders wonder why so many people are leaving?

[wornoutsneakers]

intothelight wrote:

Do you all think the church manipulates members by making them think the rules of the church are so important that they can’t be good people unless they follow all of them? Is tying up a person’s self worth in your approval of them the real force behind what makes members of the church do what they do?

I have often wondered myself if trying to live up to the standards of the church was a contributing factor to issues like depression and suicide. It startled me after i joined to learn how many women struggle with depression. I havent heard about men…but i know alot of women in my ward have it. Then i found out that several families in my ward each have like one son that committed suicide. That is terrible.

In my opinion there are so many things you have to be accountable for that is part of the reason why. Its hard to be “ideal”. I confided into my Bishop shortly after i joined that i felt really depressed. I couldnt understand why. I have always been a bubbly person. His response was that there must be something i need to improve on. Well, if you pick enough at something your bound to get a response….so it would either be that i wasnt reading my scriptures on a daily basis, or i didnt consistenly pray, or i wasnt a full tithe payer. He could always find a reason for my unhappiness. Everything centered around something i was failing at or not doing properly.

So yes, to some degree i believe the church is responsible for the mental health of many of its members…but not by purposely manipulating them. Its due to the culture.

[wornoutsneakers]

**2nd update**…my talk with the Bishop….Strike the name!

So the Bishop was really interested in what was going on (too scared to ask her himself he told me). I relayed that she wanted distance and didnt want to be with the church, so on. His response? Well then she can just be removed from the rolls then! He wants me to ask her about that. How do i bring that up to her? I understand his stance to a point…about keeping names on a roll when someone doesnt want any contact with the church. But really? He doesnt even want to try to see what he can do to keep her there. Doesnt even want to know why. And he wants to get working on this right away. It really disheartened me. When i told him i planned to continue my friendship with her and her family and not bring up church he just ignored it.

This has really helped with my view of the church, church practices, so forth. (thats sarcasm).

[wornoutsneakers]

I should say i appreciate all the ideas and thoughts everyone had. After struggling on my own for several years now…i definitely didnt feel a guilt trip would produce any results that alot of others at church were hoping for…or would be good for my friend. As i drove home tonite, i almost felt a twinge of guilt myself for not even trying to say “what i know to be true”. But what does that really do for another person? How many countless times have i sat thru a fast and testimony meeting listening to someone say that and it went in one ear and out the other? It never once sparked in me a determination to do more family history work, a desire to go to the temple more, make me pay my “10%” willingly, or start reading my scriptures every nite like im supposed to.

This evidently isnt the path for her. At the very least we can be friends and i can be someone in their lives that will be there for them without any judgement. Church right now is working for me, but like others on here have said, i’m learning to take away from it the parts that work. Im sure when it comes around for me to renew my TR that it wont happen. I have accepted it. Strangly enough i dont really have the desire to go like i used to. I have worried maybe that is the step that takes me away from the church completely. But for right now im enjoying my calling and being around others at church.

[wornoutsneakers]

**Update**

So i met with my friend today. It was sortof of awkward at first because she hasnt been coming around for several months. But her son was there to break the ice and he was glad to see me, he hugged me. After some general conversation i asked what was new in her life and casually brought up church. She confided to me that she never had any intention of joining the church, she said she felt pressured by another person that introduced her to the church. I didnt feel it was appropriate to bear my testimony or remind her of the obvious. She kept explaining herself and i just said “look, its your life, you have to make the decison about what is right for you and your family now”. We ended up having a very nice evening. I plan on telling my Bishop what she told me…basically that doesnt want to have anything to do with the church, she never believed in what was presented to her, and she has chosen a different path. My future interactions with her will just be on a friend basis, not a visiting teacher.

I dont mind at all what she has chosen for the basic reason that sometimes i question what i do too. It always puzzled me why my Bishop would say that there is truth in all religions…but we are the only true church and way back to Heavenly Father. I believe there are multiple paths to God. I dont believe that you have to accomplish a certain list of things to go back to Heavenly Father. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior, i will try my best to be as charitable, caring, and selfless as i can, but im not perfect and i know he wouldnt expect that. That is my opinion. Probably doesnt jive with the church, but oh well.

[wornoutsneakers]

Mike,

I befriended her before she joined the church. I had an very uplifting spiritual experience with her at one the lessons the elders gave. Part of the reason why our friendship grew so much was because we had alot in common. Im not saying im unsure whether or not to stay her friend. What im unsure about is if and how i should bring up the subject of church topics. Several people at church want her to come back but i dont feel comfortable encouraging her to do so. Partly because she has made it clear already she doesnt want to, and also because of my doubts. In my own past, i have felt coerced to stay active in church and accept church callings….so the line they (Bishopric and others) want me to use on her doesnt set with me so well. I just dont want her to say later …”well wornoutsneakers told me that she doesnt agree with this part of church doctrine” or “wornoutsneakers told me she has thought about leaving and joining a different church”. I just dont want to be viewed as negative. I have never shared these thoughts with anyone before…except on here. Im so unsure myself. I guess the best policy is to be honest and if she asks for my opinion to share it.

[wornoutsneakers]

Alot of the guilt i started to feel after i first joined the church centered around my scripture reading. I just couldnt do it every day. I worked full time and when i came home late at nite…i wanted to eat and go to bed. I started to slack in other areas too, like prayer and tithing. It has been a domino effect for me. I felt so inadequate…i had a Bishop and his counselors that said they would get up an hour early every day to do their scripture reading to make sure it was done before they did anything else. I solely quit reading the Bible and switched to the BOM to try to accomplish this. Forget any other “pleasure reading”. I feel the church stance that we need to read the BOM every day is unrealistic.

[wornoutsneakers]

University,

Im sorry about your bad experience today and im glad mom3 had some suggestions as i dont. But i feel for you. The holidays are always so tough for me. As a single adult woman with no children, it can be overwhelming sitting alone at church surrounded by families. I actually broke down and cried before church today. The pressure of church today and the anticipation of what i knew i would see and feel overwhelmed me. Then when i got home (survived the day), i opened my email to find an email from a friend posting pictures online of their “great holiday family experience”. LOL. They had pictures of everyone in their Sunday best, parents helping the kids dye easter eggs, a great easter egg hunt, etc. I had leftovers warmed up in the micro and watched tv (yes im bad and do that on Sunday…). Im struggling with my own feelings of what the church means to me now, maybe im having a mid life crisis…idk. But i feel that i may survive this whole experience if i can learn just to take parts of it here and there and try not to get too overwhelmed.

[wornoutsneakers]

jhp33 wrote:

As I’m sure is the case in many wards, each opening and closing exercises features a child standing up and giving a scripture. In our ward, the scripture is the same for a whole month. This month, it is not a scripture, but an excerpt of the Proclamation.

Hi, i just wanted to reply about your post. In our ward we do have an excerpt from the Proclamation on our bulletin board, as the monthly scripture reference, but we dont read it. The children in both the Junior and Senior groups recite the Theme in opening exercises. Then one child in each group is assigned to read a scripture of their choice. We dont recite any part of the Proclamation. I guess every ward is different? Im pretty sure the Presidency is following the guidlines set forth in the Sharing Time manual.

[wornoutsneakers]

That is inspiring to hear that you had a great day at church. I will note that i struggled a little on Sunday. I should say that i dread fast and testimony meetings. For one reason im sort of a private person i could never stand up and tearfully bear my testimony in front of a room full of people i really dont know that well. I always felt like somehow my testimonies lacked. Yesterday no one really wanted to get up and bear testimonies so that made it worse!! I will describe one that was shared that really bothered me. There is an elderly member, a man, that frequently gets up and shares every month. Well this month he shared a story about a girl he met at a store. He got all personal with this young woman and was asking if she was married or single. He asked if she was living with her boyfriend “in sin”. What really got under my skin was that everyone was chuckling and laughing as he told this testimony…including the Bishop. Like somehow we, church members, are better than her because she is having relations with her boyfriend without being married. I should note that he NEVER ONCE TRIED TO SHARE THE GOSPEL WITH HER. I thought it was very judgemental and it rubbed me the wrong way. I came home last nite wondering how i would be received if i met a man and transgressed and had a baby out of wedlock. I resolved it would make me want to leave the church. Then i got to thinking about all the single mothers (who had their kids out of wedlock) who have recently converted to the Gospel that were sitting in the chapel. I wonder how they felt? It sortof changed my opinion of the people in the audience that laughed the whole way thru his testimony. How are we to encourage people who have “sinned” into repenting and joining the church if they have to listen to that? Very disturbing.

[wornoutsneakers]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts. I appreciated the wart story. Deep down i know that i need to embrace what makes me…me. I have made alot of changes since i converted back in 2011 ( i actually converted several years before then but that is the official year i joined the church). I think somewhere along the way i forgot who i was. And i think this is causing alot of anxiety for me. I have always been a low key person who was fairly laid back, so this is a definite change for me. I will also say that it probably added fuel to the fire that i joined a church that is quite demanding. That was a comment my mom made shortly after i joined. I didnt realize i would be expected to go to church for 3 hrs every Sunday, that i would be expected to accept a calling that would require work outside of church, doing family history work, making plans to attend the temple, and paying tithing. Not to mention giving talks periodically and having to visit teach several people every month. It was a big change. Then to feel like im expected to come clean about stuff i had way put away and compartmentalized many years ago was very stressful.

Thanks for your support.

[wornoutsneakers]

DarkJedi wrote:

Please don’t misunderstand what I’m about to say, but you admit you’re up and down, why does it bother you if they told the truth?

DJ,

It bothers me because i have asked them before to not say things like that in the past. To give you some background on why im so sensitive…He was my Bishop and i disclosed alot of personal, hurtful things from my past that i really didnt want to. I wanted to talk about it in my intro but it was deleted (and rightfully so probably). I have dealt with alot of you know what so to speak. I only disclosed this stuff to him because i was blackmailed by a nonmember and i was worried i would be thrown out of the church. To my great dismay…it was shared with the Stake President and eventually up the chain. It took me awhile to get over that (im a very private person). So when he says stuff like that, i worry that he is carrying personal opinions about everything that i have told him, what about forgiveness and forgetting? He only says stuff like that too when im excited or happy about something, which also takes the wind out of my sails. Probably the main reason why im still close to them is because i’ve always associated them with being like my confidants. And they have encouraged me to do that. But when i do…it comes back to haunt me later.

I think Mike was right in that i need to find new friends. And move on.

[wornoutsneakers]

Mike,

Thanks for responding. You had some good advice. I forgot how JC and JS struggled at times. That was comforting. I think that your right that i will try to find out new people to converse with about my concerns and issues. That family i was referencing told me i was too negative. It made me really self conscious….like i was failing…i couldnt be upbeat and bubbly all the time like them. I have made some other friends and and they ARE good friends. I should probably be grateful for what i do have friend wise and foster them more. There are hardly any other single women my age here in this ward. The ones that are have completely different lives than me. One was even fairly sarcastic and mean to me when i first joined…so i wont be trying to friend her! My current visiting teachers never visit me so that is a lost cause. I dont really do to much outside of church so my choice of friends there is limited. My old friends had a very dangerous lifestyle so i wont be looking them up. The other advice you gave that i wanted to address was that you said dont sweat the small stuff….that is some great advice that i have sortof gleaned from this site other times too. I really struggle with tithing and worry that i will be damned for not being able to pay my full 10%. But by looking at the scriptures and listening to the advice on here…i have realized there is more to it. Im evolving in my view of God and JC and what is just “church rules” and what is really needed. Thanks.

[wornoutsneakers]

church0333 wrote:

I think JD is spot on. I have seen it happen and have heard it from local leaders. They tell the HT to go after the low hanging fruit. At leadership meetings the focus is get people back to church and to the temple. There isn’t much interest in having people at church unless they will pull their own weight.

I have made an observation that is similiar to what church 0333 said. I have noticed that there are cliques at church. Im assuming this is just not in my ward. the “low hanging fruit”…is it fair to generalize are also low income, single parents, divorcees, have health/mental health issues, and/or are minorities? There sure seems to be a divide between TBM mormons and “low hanging fruit”. 99% of the TBM mormons have very good jobs at one of two high paying employers in my area. None of their wives work. And they live in the best parts of town. The rest of us who struggle to make ends meet, some receive aid from the state, are single parents, suffer from repeat health and mental health issues, and could be part of a minority group…are not as active and struggle with callings, paying tithing, and dont attend the temple as much as true believers (we dont have transportation reliable enough to get there). Am i imagining this?

[wornoutsneakers]

mackay11 wrote:

It is easy. You can write directly to the local church office in your country/region and they will remove your name within about 48 hours. They have to for data protection reasons in a lot of countries. My friend resigned and had his name removed immediately after he had written to the local church office.

Mackay11, that sortof sounds familiar with what the Bishop told me. He said they had to get written permission but something also about it had to be done in person. I thought he said he had to speak to them to?

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