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I finally got around to trying rooibos/redbush. I think I have my tea replacement. 
It may be that I haven’t had the real thing in a while but I swear it tasted just like it…. With a different aftertaste perhaps but close enough. I like that it has the health benefits and antioxidants like tea as well.
I’m going to try an earl grey version when it gets here in the mail. If it resembles the real thing at all I will be ecstatic.
Ann wrote:Old-Timer wrote:Quote:Then what will the church do?
Not practice polygamy, I am sure. Of course, I don’t know that, but I am sure of it.
I agree. So why are we being subjected to this? Put it on the ash heap!
My sentiments exactly.
If they ever try to institute it again then I’ll have some more free time on Sunday.
Unless an angel with a flaming sword shows up or something…
hawkgrrrl wrote:Mom3 – good points.
I tend to agree with Ray that this actually will encourage far more girls to serve, not to marry at age 18 (!). Among new missionaries, half are women. That speaks volumes. Here are some changes that I think need to come to support that:
1 – make the MP’s wife a calling also. For MPs with small children, this makes things a bit tough perhaps.
2 – female APs and leaders for the sisters among the sisters. If we want to go the nun / priest route, that makes sense. Some progressive MPs I heard about had female APs over the sisters.
I have wondered one other thing – if this will also result in more women being the breadwinner in their marriages. They will gain the skills missionaries do, and they will have done a year of college before mission, plus take 6 months less to complete their missions. I also wonder if it will be hard for the boys to get a start on their college if they delay for 2 years.
While I agree that the church isn’t really encouraging (officially) boys to go at 18 vs. 19, just allowing it has already resulted in some pressure at local levels for 18 year old boys to go immediately at 18, once they finish high school. My son is in this age group, and he plans to go to college first, but he’s been “counseled” by several bishops or other local leaders to go at 18 – not his own, but other wards. A few bishops and leaders are just making a blanket encouragement to go at 18 without even knowing the kid.
My first MP (loved him) had his wife in charge of a lot of things. She had several small children and she still coordinated all of the health issues in the mission. We had quite the network of LDS doctors and dentists that she would arrange appointments with. I also discussed some mental health issues with her. I talked to her as much as my MP and both were very helpful in different ways. She spoke at every zone conference twice. Once was always something about us needing to clean the apartments better or use more hand sanitizer…but the other was always quite spiritual. Certainly more than the APs’ talks were in my opinion. We still talk occasionally (more than with my MP) and she’ll always be a second mom to me.
We also had a companionship of sisters that were leaders over the sisters. They had a catchy title but I somehow have forgotten it hehe. They were like Zone leaders except they covered the whole mission since the sisters tended to be spread out. The sisters had their own meetings every so often, arranged their own exchanges, and the sisters in the leadership position were even consulted when it came time for transfers. You could say they were on the same level as the APs because they reported to the MP’s wife and not the APs and she would consult her husband if necessary.
As for sisters in general, I always enjoyed that more mature viewpoint of the sister missionaries. I was a month shy of 24 when I got to the field. I found 19 year old boys quite annoying. The sisters, often 23 or 24 instead of 21, were much more mature in their testimonies and approach to the work. They cared so much more about the people and not their “duty” or numbers or whatever.
Which brings me to the 18 year thing. It’s being pushed really hard in my family’s ward. I have younger brothers that have had to tell the bishop to back off (in basically those words). My family isn’t one to give in to church peer pressure.
You’d think they’d be more cautious since that ward has had ~30% of its missionaries come home early the last few years.
If I’d gone at 18 or 19 (or 22) I’d have come home after 6 months or less and never wanted anything to do with church again. Working through some cogdis stuff and learning how to process uncorrelated history before my mission saved me. My experiences with wandering away from the iron rod for a while gave me a new appreciation of many of the truths we were teaching without having to use cultural justifications and such.
All in all, I’m sure there are some for whom serving at 18 will be beneficial. But it would have been a disaster for me.
Thank you. I’ve been experiencing a bit of a cynical streak lately. Sometimes it’s helpful to have something random put you in your place like that. I had a conversation with a family member the other night that did just that. Dax wrote:I agree Ann….the “change” in regards to polygamy amounts to simple rewording of what is already there. It does nothing to address dc 132.
It also as you stated makes it appear that if the Supreme Court had not ruled against it we would still be required to practice polygamy.
It still has the threat that it would/could come back!
At least with regards to the priesthood ban they are saying it was not “doctrinal” revelation. Which means it will NOT come back one day.
Polygamy, including dc 132 is still “revelation” and “doctrinal”.
What a mess!
I find it fascinating the church is leaving the door open to polygamy’s return.
Even more so because there is a case in the Utah courts right now seeking to declare laws against polygamy unconstitutional. And with other “alternative” marriages being legalized slowly I think polygamy will one day be recognized. Then what will the church do?
At this point I’m still quite conflicted. The idea that Joseph wasn’t a polygamist seems too good to be true after being taught the opposite my whole life. Just because I really want to believe it doesn’t make it true… But the idea of Brigham Young et al. manipulating information to secure their positions does fit my view of Brigham Young just fine.
If it were true then that opens a whole new can of worms about whether anything post-JS would be legitimate. But for me there are ways around that problem that are easier to swallow than the idea of JS living a double life.
I think the truth may lie somewhere in the middle. I don’t think that Utah-era polygamy was inspired in its practice. And i absolutely don’t think polygamy was intended to be the central doctrine of the church as it was for 50 years.
So I’m still not convinced that Joseph didn’t practice it. But I’m moving in that direction.
Whenever I pray about it I’ve felt, like many, that it wasn’t a central doctrine and that I’d understand some day…
Perhaps that understanding comes in realizing its falsehood, hmm?
💡 At any rate I don’t think 132 was received
in totoby Joseph Smith. It just doesn’t fit to me. SamBee wrote:I have an embarassingly low tolerance myself (which is one of my problems with alcohol), but some of my Japanese friends made me look like the opposite. Probably they could do the same to me after years of abstinence.
Japanese beer isn’t up to much (nor American I’m afraid), but the Japanese true to form, probably have excellent alcohol free beer I expect.
Anyone tried alcohol free wine?
I’ve had Sutter fré. It’s OK. I’m not huge on wine. It wasnt like what I’ve had in France. But little is.
My Japanese friends always got rosy cheeks after half a beer. However I never met a Korean that couldn’t drink me under the table. Go figure.
turinturambar wrote:There was an Asahi brewery in one of my mission areas.
I miss asahi. It went well with sushi. I never liked sake. Especially hot. Ugh. (Un)fortunately I was being “good” when I went to Japan. The worst I drank was some mugi-cha that happened to have some real tea in it. And some amazake at a shrine on new years. Supposed to have been n/a but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t. The amazake was delicious…even warm. And I’ve left mugi-cha out of this whole discussion till now. I love mugi-cha…
…But honestly, nothing beats fish and chips and draught ale in a random pub in London. That’s about as religious of an experience as I’ve ever had.
If the church considers the hundreds of years of church reformation was necessary and done by inspired men why would any of us have a problem with some writers being “inspired” to write books that have a thread of truth and helped JS to expand his mind past the standard beliefs of the time. I had someone bring up a view of the Hebrews on my mission. They were shocked when I said I not only knew about it but I’d read it and found it fascinating. Its like they thought knowing that more people than JS considered the native Americans might be from lost tribes would destroy my testimony.
My companion on the other hand took some patching up. He was shocked both by the fact such a book existed and that I’d read it.
For an interesting exposition on the possibility of JS having nothing to do with 132 read this: http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html?m=1 This was a belief of the RLDS church forever.
I also find it fascinating that Emma publicly denied Joseph had anything to do with polygamy her whole life…
132 has always been conflicting for me. It doesn’t bring the spirit. It doesn’t sound like the Lord. The voice is so different from other sections. Even if one believed Joseph made up the d&c I feel like the Lord has a fairly consistent voice (in a literary sense). Its different here. Especially in the Emma verses. I don’t know. It’s like ideas taken from other things Joseph taught mixed with justification for polygamy. I didn’t read the article above until about 3 days ago and I’m not declaring I believe it. It’s given me a lot of food for thought though and I’m considering it. But I’ve always struggled with 132. Just doesn’t fit…
If we’re playing semantics… What does the Latin root of meditation “meditari” mean.
I understand. Language is an immense constraint on our ability to express things of the mind and spirit. Ponder doesn’t adequately describe what I would like to. It’s just a word used at church that approximates it.
I wouldn’t define it as “reasoning” or actively trying solve a problem. More like letting a question or an idea roll around on its own and acknowledging the thoughts it brings up without actively seeking them.
I think this principle exists in the phrase “search, ponder, and pray” from the primary song as the “ponder”. Its just underemphasized and misunderstood. Too often now the leadership make it sound like they’ve done the searching and pondering for us and we just have to pray about what they say. Although I think it’s getting better.
Meditation isn’t about contorting yourself into full lotus position. It’s about peacefully pondering the works of God in whatever way brings you the peace you’re searching for.
Hawkgrrl, Were you at my stake conference this weekend?
Had a whole talk about how our wives are already perfect and we need to make sure we honor them and take care of them and all that stuff. This in a talk copiously quoting BKP too. Even when quoting JS it was like “BKP once quoted JS as saying…” I was going nuts.
Fortunately the area 70 speaking later corrected his claims that women are perfect and “a temple worthy women is always better than a temple worthy man”.
Now I love my wife and don’t doubt she’s better than me in many, many ways. But its because she isn’t a lilting flower. She would never be happy as a full time stay at home wife/mom with me serving her. And I would never expect it of her.
On the original topic… I think they missed an opportunity. At least in my mission the sisters, on average, worked harder and baptized more. Mainly because a mission is optional for them. They always seemed to be there because of their testimonies, not cultural expectation. I really think 18 is too young but whatever the age I think it should’ve been the same and serving for the same amount of time.
But I don’t think this change was some great revelation. Just a realization that a lot of boys decide not to go in the year after high school.
I like Ray’s explanation but for me its not quite enough. When I heard this announcement my feeling was “dang, they almost got it right” hehe.
On the bright side the RS in my ward did a special SM last month. All 3 talks and both prayers were done by women. That was a first.
I’ve had O’Douls original and amber. They’re pretty bad. I like the original more. Amber has a soy sauce thing going on I’m not into. Becks is tolerable.
I’m not a Coors man… NA or other.
Buckler by Heineken is ok unless it’s skunked… Kind of like regular Heineken.
I actually like Miller Sharps. It’s not my favorite style but it tastes the most like it’s alcoholic counterpart to me. Strong on corn notes though. I had a thing for Miller high life before. It was the cheapest I could stand haha.
There’s limited choice though. In Utah the liquor stores are all state owned. Supermarkets are limited. Liquor store might have a better selection of NAs but I’m afraid if I went in there I’d come out with a bottle of Grand Marnier.
I’ll be the first to admit that just hearing the word porn triggers a series of images to go through my head. and when I hear talks about how bad it is my mind argues back reminding me of all the “good” things about it. The more it’s discussed the more I’m tempted. Fortunately since I’m happily married I have other outlets for the tension and it’s not as bad as it used to be for me. but it’s still not pleasant to be picturing porn in the chapel. It’s messed up when porn is talked about more than Jesus in sacrament meetings. It’s not every Sunday…. But it seems like every Sunday there’s *something* talked about more than Jesus. And I don’t think that’s ever right.
