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I like how Ballard referred to apostles and prophets as “another resource” for counsel, and not as a rock of truth. Ann wrote:Who spoke after Elder Christofferson? I think it’s just as well that I didn’t catch it. I caught a whiff of “don’t draw your own conclusions.”
Elder Bassett. Yeah, it was a lot of the “trusting God means trusting church versions of history” spiel.
There was some good stuff about trusting God and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, though.
“The grace of God does not restore us to our previous innocent state.” It brings us to a different state with a different understanding. Even if some others do not understand that destination state. I think TBMs often conflate “the Gospel” with “the current understanding of church leaders.” The same thing is happening in Cook’s talk. Christ taught that when we teach more or less than his gospel it is evil, not “when we teach more or less than the opinion and culture of church leaders” If we are more devoted to a cause than the Savior and his teachings (which were primarily love for our fellow man), we are looking beyond the mark. Seems like a reiteration of the commandment not to judge. Wish that was actually said.
This is why I don’t understand the Church’s policies and cutlure wrt exmos and LGBTQs. It feels like it runs contrary to the gospel described in Elder Cornish’s talk. I feel like we in the church conflate two completely different concepts in the word “prophet”. One is “God’s mouthpiece”, and the other is “someone who holds the keys of administration in the church”. I don’t think these two concepts are the same at all. Joseph Smith taught that
Quote:A prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.
This is clearly referring to the first definition. If you look at the Old Testament and even some BoM prophets like Abinadi, they weren’t part of the administrative structure of the church. The people at the time didn’t recognize them as prophets. And yet this is how we regard them today. How I understand JS’s quote is that what makes someone a prophet isn’t authority in their position, but rather the words they speak being in agreement with the will of God. Another way to look at it is no one permanently has the position of “prophet” (first definition), since they are only such when they are speaking God’s words. And yes, it means that there can be (and often are) a great many “prophets” around at the same time.
Numbers 11:29 wrote:And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!
I accept that JS was a prophet when he spoke the words of God and wasn’t a prophet when his words and actions were contrary to God’s will. The same goes for the Q15. Christ taught that “by their fruits ye shall know them.” We can know when someone is acting as a prophet by the fruits that their words (back to Alma’s seed analogy) bring to our lives.
Wrt the sacrament, I’d listen to or read the wording of the prayer and use that to decide whether or not to take it. One of the key words in the prayer is being willingto take on Christ’s name and follow him. My thoughts are along the line of Hawk’s. I feel strongly about coming out for that reason. I really noticed in my last ward how people think of LGBTs rather abstractly, that we’re something out there that’s “bad” but not actually real people. I don’t mind too much if the ward decides to socially close its doors to me. I don’t go to church for social reasons. I can find friends elsewhere. My ecclesiastical endorsement should not be at risk, even if they decide to investigate. The honor code does not forbid being LGBT. It prohibits homosexual relationships and expression of homosexual affection.
Yeah, I don’t think prayer on temple grounds is extra special either. I don’t want to act on my bisexuality, just to talk about it.
I was thinking about mentioning it in a F&TM message, not making it the focus. I agree that going up and making an announcement would be flashy, I don’t really want that. But at the same time, I want to be out. And I’ve found opportunities to come out to people tend to not happen organically. Testimony meeting seemed to be the chance that I have the most control over, and I thought having it be a minor part of an actual testimony could help reduce the flashiness. What other routes would you take instead of F&TM?
The dirge tempo is a problem with a lot of hymns, but it is really the problem of the conductor and organist, not the hymn itself. Almost none of the written tempos for hymns are dirge-like, it’s just that some organists play really slowly. I like this hymn a lot too. It’s one of the few “Utah” or “pioneer” songs that actually means something to me.
My understanding of commandments is: things or rules that God has told me to obey.
DarkJedi wrote:But are you implying there can be commandments to individuals that are not commandments to other individuals?
And my answer to this is most definitely, yes. There have been times where I’ve felt distinct promptings to do something, and ignoring the prompting would be deliberately putting distance between me and God, one of the definitions of a sin. Back when the WoW was first given (setting aside the commandment/counsel question), if a member felt strongly that God wanted him/her to keep the WoW, even though it wasn’t given as a commandment to the Church as a whole, would “breaking” the WoW not be a sin for that one person? He/she would be going against what they believed the will of God is with reference to themself.Another example is I’m not convinced that homosexual behavior is
necessarilywrong or a sin. But I’ve had promptings that God wants me personally to keep the law of chastity as taught by the church (I’m bisexual). So even though I wouldn’t say that not being in homosexual relationships is a universal commandment, it’s certainly a commandment with regards to myself.
