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DarkJedi wrote:
On the other hand, it could have been recorded for exactly what happened.
I think it’s possible that it was for both reasons. If it turned out well, there’s something for Samantha to have to remember. If it turns out poorly, there’s something that can be used to raise awareness of how queer kids are treated in the lds church. Either way, something good comes out of it.
I do find it strange that it took so long for the news to explode. If I remember correctly, the incident happened 3 to 4 weeks ago. Yet NewNameNoah only posted the video more recently. Imo, that’s a point in favor of the filming not being originally intended to bring bad publicity to the church. It looks like NNN heard about what happened and then reached out to the family, instead of it being pre-planned.
dande48 wrote:
I also think this quote brings up a very good point. This is also why I am against hormone-therapy and sex-changes for those under 18. It’s a BIG-DEAL, one that requires a lot of sacrifice, and is a very difficult and challenging process. The teenage years are a difficult time, and the worst thing you can do is paint yourself into a corner, only to realize, “oops”, I’m not “that way” at all.
This is off topic, but fyi, transition for pre-puberty trans kids is social, not hormonal or surgical. Also, the first step for teens isn’t hormone replacement therapy, but puberty blockers, for exactly the reason you described. You don’t want to paint the kid into a corner by forcing them to go through the wrong puberty.
I have no comment on thinking kids should wait until 18 before undergoing HRT.
At this point I’d say most of the ignorance is willful, at least to some degree. This is how you get people who hear many testimonies of those who are abused and dismiss it all as lies and propaganda, how you get family members who describe their “loved ones” as having gone astray and feel the need to frequently emphasize that they disagree with their “choice of lifestyle.” These people wouldn’t be able to remain ignorant of they weren’t resisting information that challenges their worldview. It takes a lot of willpower to do so. How conscious is the resisting? I don’t know. For some, it may be more of an instictual response. Best of luck in getting past their amygdala. I ran across this blog post on reddit. It tries to explain how exmormons feel to TBMs and does a great job at not being anti. You might be able to get some ideas from it. My take is that very few people use F&T meeting to share a testimony, but Savanna actually was sharing one. The criticism of her writing down her message beforehand makes no sense to me. It’s a topic that can be difficult to share about and can bring up lots of past hurt. You want to avoid offending members of the ward. Of course you are going to write it out beforehand. I also obviously disagree with the claims of “false teachings.” Yes, we get the spirit affirming our identity and worth all the time, and yes, it directly contradicts the teachings of the church.
My take is that the SP had a choice between being christlike and letting a 12 year old bear her testimony of her worth as a child of God, and defending the church’s teachings on the subject. I also think he didn’t see the first option for what it was.
I also think that’s a pretty low bar for being christlike. This isn’t even affirming her worth, but merely allowing her to bear testimony of it.
Reuben wrote:
I do think the Church systematically abuses members on the margins. I still think a lot of it is due to entitlement and control. I think some of it arises from ignorance. I don’t know how much ignorance is wilful. If someone thinks he doesn’t need your opinion because he honestly believes that God is telling him what to do – or at least would stop him from doing anything terrible – is that wilful ignorance?
I don’t see how whether or not the abuse is willful and intentional actually makes a difference. It’s happening regardless, and it will continue to go on regardless. It makes no difference in terms of what you can actually do about the abuse.
When it comes to porn and addiction, do realize that very few people who describe themselves as porn addicts are actually *addicted* to porn. I’m not necessarily saying you aren’t, but approaching it as an addiction may be the wrong way to go. Joni wrote:
Hypothetical question: if a person leaves the Church, but improves her relationship with God, is that a net gain?
If you don’t believe in the church’s truth claims and social reasons aren’t a factor, what benefit is there to staying in the church *if* you think that you will have a closer relationship to God outside it?
I’d emphasize her making sure she wants to go for the right reasons. A mission is hard, and if you don’t really want to be there, you can make life very hard for your companions. You might suggest she wait before putting in her papers. Say that it’s not that she shouldn’t go, but that it would help to take time to consider why she wants to go so that it will be a positive experience. Like SD mentioned, I’ve seen the “…. take the truth to be hard” quote used as a form of victim blaming, as a way of dismissing or turning a cold shoulder to those who have been hurt by church teachings or disobey commandments that they cannot in good conscience follow. It can also be problematic when used in introspection, since if you are coming from the same TBM paradigm, you can take what your conscience is telling you as “proof” that you are wicked. I prefer the Nietchze quote if you interpret “faith” in context to mean belief without or in spite of evidence, since that focuses on making sure the reasons for a belief are valid instead of giving emotions (which can have many different causes) the heavier weight. Reuben wrote:I think most of the Q15 think that children being raised to think SSM is good is one of Satan’s insidious inroad into the Church, a canker that has to be stopped at all costs for the sake of eternal families.
In the long term, it’s a hopeless fight. Most young people have out LGBT friends or family. The church’s teachings on eternal families is working against them on this one. The gay bashing makes people confront the inconsistency between the homophobia and the family values the church tries to promote.SamBee wrote:
Definitely – and I believe no one has benefited including its supporters.
You could argue that fence sitters who were miserable in the church benefited when their shelves broke, but yeah, the PoX was a bad move.
SilentDawning wrote:
to me, the reductionist approach of boiling the gospel down to loving our neighbor as ourself isn’t sufficient to really be a good Mormon
I agree.
Quote:
belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up
Even these are not all necessary to loving your neighbor as yourself. I personally love symbolic cleansing, but it’s not actually essential. Neither is belief in the divine necessary. They are a core part of a large number of paths to loving your neighbor, but they are not part of all of them. If you only consider what is common to all paths/disciplines/churches that lead to love, what is left is not enough to consider a culture.Which I think is a great thing. It means we can learn to truly appreciate different cultures and different ways of life, since we in no way have the “superior” one. We can truly respect others when they make decisions we do not understand, since their road through life, though different, is no worse than ours. “Sin,” as it applies to others, changes from “doing what is contrary to my arbitrary discipline” to “doing harm to others.” Diversity is something to be cherished.
I think I misread your comment. I understood it to mean that seeing the road to love as the core of the gospel allows one to function and be happy in the LDS church. And I responded by saying that the LDS path is, for many, antithetical to travelling towards the summit, which you have described as the gospel. I’m seeing a lot of similar sentiment in SD’s posts. That the church has, in many respects, gotten in the way of living what you described as the gospel. It feels like we’re kind of talking around each other.
Heber13 wrote:
When you do find that road to love as the core of the gospel, you can return to church, the LDS church, and with a new perspective practice living it with your brothers and sisters…sharing the light you find, and seeking the light others found.
I used to wish this was true in the universal sense, but it is not. There are many paths to the top of Mt Fuji, but not all of them are traversable by everyone. The LDS church, or even church at all for that matter, is an unhealthy path for a large number of people. But, like you said, it’s important to find the common ground. We’re all trying to reach the same summit – love.
