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mackay11 wrote:
I’m glad I read this as it gave context to the thread that was quickly locked.
You’ve read a brief background of my history. My brother was the opposite of me. He walked the line, went on a mission, married in the temple and like what’s happens to many plateaued. He found a forum like this for support and was exposed to Pandora’s box. An innocent search for encouraging support opened him to a world of doubt, anti-Mormon propaganda and Joseph Smith/prophet bashing under the pretence of lending support.Yes these subjects are real and should to be discussed openly, but they should be addressed delicately. I’m proud of the church for taking a more transparent position moving forward. In the case of my brother, his support forum caused far more damage than good. I don’t know if this is the one he found or not, but I took it upon myself to do a little research on what’s out there and how they function. I’ve read through many posts on this site, and yes I give them credit for keeping contention low, but I’m concerned with all the anti-Mormon propaganda disguised as support. There are a lot of subjects in our church open for interpretation, but some doctrines are plane and simple and serve as the very foundation of our religion. I’m not against open discussions and even challenging doctrine in search of building a personal conviction; I am however, against derogatory disbelief poising the minds of the unstable. People look for support when at their most influancial and impressionable stages of life. I pray they can come here and have a faith building experience, because I know many here have the best intentions.
Asking what is the value of faith is like asking what is the value of the Internet 20 years ago. The concept might sounds intriguing, but you just don’t know until you’ve experienced it first hand. Then you wonder how you ever managed without it. I don’t know if I would label these as the top doctrines taught by our church, but they are the top 5 doctrines that led to my convictions–if that helps. 1-humility
2-personal testimony
3-atonement
4-temple ordinances (this includes family)
5-charity (this includes missionary work)
It’s been an interesting paradox I have experienced in my life. The majority of my friends who grow up strong in the church walking the line as best they understood, serving a mission and marrying in the temple are currently struggling with this “faith crises.” The majority of my friends, that were raised Mormon, who “fell away” earlier in life are currently the strong temple recommend holding solid testimony members. It seems to be a common theme. I wonder why this is? I’m glad you’re taking steps towards redefining and rebuilding your testimony. Most of my friends wont even discuss spiritual things anymore. cwald wrote:zeppelinate wrote:By the way, how do you do the quote thing when you are responding directly to one thing I said? I’m kind of new to this forum stuff.
There is a quote button on the top right of every post. Hit it, and then just delete the portion that you don’t want. be sure to leave the square parenthesis at the beginning and end, as that is a code for formatting
Cool thanks now I feel all formal:)cwald wrote:zeppelinate wrote:True, family is the fundamental unit of society but even it has a chain of command so to speak as we learn in the temple and the proclamation to the family.
Can we sustain our leaders, and still disagree with them on these kind of mormon issues? Can I sustain the leadership, and just disagree with the concept that Zep understands the Proclamation and the temple ceremony to mean?
CWALD I can’t answer that question. If you answer the questions honestly as you understand them then I would say yes. If you were open with your bishop and stake president concerning your position I have no idea what they would say. I’m just thankful I don’t have to make that judgement call.
God allowed his chosen people to be taken captive by Babylon and that had a brutal effect on many Jews. However, God’s knowledge is higher than ours and he obviously had his reasons. Does this make him a hypocrite for the lack of love shown towards his choice sprits? Can we make the judgment call that what the blacks experienced wasn’t part of His plan too? True, family is the fundamental unit of society but even it has a chain of command so to speak as we learn in the temple and the proclamation to the family. True, but what is our understanding of love? God taught us
1-“What manner of men ought ye be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am.”
2-But I say unto you, Love your enemies
3-For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?
4- Be ye therefore perfect, even as your cFather which is in heaven is perfect.
What do we know about God’s perfect love? That can be very ambiguous. There are many examples in scripture that I wouldn’t consider showing loving as I currently understand it. There are also scriptures that would suggest that though God is no respecter of man he certainly favors certain spirits. Does this show a lack of love?
I know Emma didn’t approve of any, but I think maybe three in a short lived period only after being threatened with Gods wrath. I like the ideal of God-Man-Church. Is there any doctrine that supports it? We know we will be asked to form Zion before the second coming. I don’t see how the God-man-church approach would apply, but I’m open to the idea.
Thanks for the warm welcome. I’ve never been part of a forum before, but I like to talk about and learn about gospel principles. I also like to better understand others perspectives and points of view as mine is constantly evolving as I learn new things. If you knew me you’d know I am very open-minded and accepting of just about everyone. I can count on one hand the people I have meet in my life that I couldn’t get along with. I also don’t have the patience to always think through and proofread everything I say, so please don’t take anything personal. I’m very ADD and my mind moves very fast. I have to get things out and move onto other distractions and as a result I often put my foot in my mouth. By the way, how do you do the quote thing when you are responding directly to one thing I said? I’m kind of new to this forum stuff. I agree with the blacks and the priesthood. That is the one unexplainable question that is continually brought up. I don’t have the answer for that one. We know Joseph Smith allowed two black brethren to hold the priesthood and we know the church’s statement concerning it. What we don’t know is the eternal affect it had on those whom it affected. We also know that it wasn’t until the second time that a prophet asked that the “ban” was removed. This raises a few questions in my mind as to the reason why? However, did this lead anyone astray? I believe fully that every black member that was affected will have the full opportunity to receive all the blessings of the temple. We are making a judgment call with a temporal perspective and limited knowledge. The issue with the miracle of forgiveness was not Kimball acting as the prophet. He was an apostle at the time and the book was not even published by the church. I think when you talk about members being less conservative this is what you’re referring to and if so I agree completely. Members read book by leaders of our church and assume and accept it as doctrine. This is not my position, my position is when the prophet is acting as the prophet that is when he is being the mouthpiece of God.
I hope you understand I’m not taking the position of I’m right and you’re wrong. I just feel we learn when our convictions are challenged and broken down to the root. If they are build on solid principles that’s what we would hope for. I will never take the position of having the only right answer because I know that is ignorant. I strive to base my beliefs on principles as I understand them, and I certainly don’t know or understand them all.
To answer the question would I follow polygamy today if told to do so by our prophet. The answer is, I would be down on my knees praying for knowledge of what to do, but I would be willing to accept that if that is what God’s plans are for me than for whatever reason I’ll do it. Luckily the D&C gave me an out with that one since my wife would never be in agreeance☺
I believe that God has an order to everything. After the fall, God no longer dealt directly with Adam. His commandments went through Jesus first then to Peter, James, and John then to Adam. Adam obeyed ignorantly and was blessed for it with further instructions and knowledge, but not till after his trial of faith and obedience. When he was asked why he was offering sacrifices he replied, “I know not save the lord has commanded me.” If the prophet asked me to do something I would take that same approach. Yes it is totally against my nature, yes it would be difficult and hurling, but that’s what God requires of us and I have learned when I’m obedient blessings follow.
You’re right it was Elder Benson thanks for correcting me. I understand and I respect your point of view and am open to challenging mine. So first I’d ask, has a prophet ever told us to do something that would hurt people unnecessarily? If I were put in that position it would certainly be a trial of faith, but I don’t feel the Lord would ever ask that. Then again Nephi was commanded to kill Laban, Joseph Smith was asked to take multiple wife’s (which clearly hurt Emma), many of the prophets were told to leave their families and follow Christ. It would certainly be a trial of my faith if I were put into any of those positions. However, here’s my fear with taking such a strong position like that. Currently we would look at the church as being pretty conservative, however they have not always been this way. Looking back at our history I would label the church as quite radical. Because of disobedience and the lack of faith of members the Lord changed many things in this church, but has promised to restore them at some point. I believe that in the near future the LDS church will take that radical approach again. I believe there will be many things we will be asked to do again that might not sit well with our cultural beliefs, personal biases, limited knowledge, and a temporal perspective. In my opinion, this is when we will experience the second great apostasy. Many people will have learned to trust in the flesh of man and in their own wisdom and when faced with hard decisions have not learned to trust in the lord. It’s easy to follow a conservative movement, but it takes a deep level of personal conviction to follow a radical one.
I’m not saying this is where you’re at, but I know many in my circle of influence who are. I believe there is a mighty sifting coming soon and we’ll have a greater need of a leader.
