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So with that qualification: What do you do with prophets that are wrong?
In my limited experience I am only aware of one prophet who was “wrong” when leading the church. The interesting thing to note is that over 30 years Brigham had a reporter follow him everywhere he went and recorded everything he said when addressing the public. The words of Brigham Young can fill a library. In books and books of his words there are only a few things he said that has been considered wrong and has since been corrected (after all that’s what the atonement is for right?) This is not yet a celestial church, but it will become one. Sure, that’s enough to make anyone question everything that’s been said from a prophet’s mouth since. For me I have to remember a few things I’ve read. 1-President Benson taught if we follow the prophet and he was wrong we would still be blessed for it. 2-Uchtdorf taught that prophets are only human, which makes them fallible, however, when acting as the prophet they will never lead us astray. 3-“Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” D&C 1:38
This tells me that on the occasion our prophet might be wrong it is not a serious enough reason that I will be lead astray as a result of following him. That promise I cannot guarantee of myself when I start second guessing him and assume I have the right answer. Humility brings me peace to allow our prophet to make mistakes and still get me to my destination safer, and more quickly than if I carved my own path. I spent a lifetime carving my own path. My progression came through being humble and submissive to His will. I also believe that if we ask and we are in tune with the spirit we will feel peace with following our prophets. Now if we are only seeing through one set of eyes we’ll get flooded with ambiguous and contradicting thoughts at be wondering through our decisions blinded concerning spiritual things.
Quote:“Looking beyond the mark” is a form of ambiguous statement that sounds like it means something, but doesn’t have a concrete definition.
I both agree and disagree with your statement. Looking beyond the mark is only as ambiguous as one chooses to make it. To the Jews during the time of Christ it was very real and lead to the great apostasy.
There is power in seeking personal revelations in all things and not following our leaders blindly, however there is also a lot of room there for the adversary to play on ones conscience. In the end I think we have to ask ourselves if our position is coming from a place of humility or pride. What the prophet says will not always fit our personal beliefs like polygamy for example. Many strong and faithful members (Joseph Smith included) really struggled with this law. Though God doesn’t want us to follow blindly He does expect us to understand that his laws and understandings are higher than ours. Sometimes the conviction and personal understanding will not come until after the trial of faith.
For me personally, I am very grateful I only need to receive revelation once that our prophet is the mouthpiece of God. Then I don’t have to struggle with my own biases and lack of understanding on every issue. Yes I will be expected to develop a personal conviction concerning the issue, but now I have the gift of time. Some convictions in my life didn’t come until after years of practicing the principles to the best of my understanding. Sometimes we wont have the luxury of time on our side.
I understand all the arguments surrounding some of what Brigham Young said too, but that’s a whole other topic.
Just a thought: Jacob 4:14
14 But behold, the Jews were a stiff-necked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may is tumble.
Couple more thoughts:
“For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.” D&C 21:5
“Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” D&C 1:38
“Because of…the apparent imperfections of men on whom God confers authority, the question is sometimes asked,—to what extent is obedience to those who hold the priesthood required? This is a very important question, and one which should be understood by all Saints. In attempting to answer this question, we would repeat, in short, what we have already written, that willing obedience to the laws of God, administered by the Priesthood, is indispensable to salvation; but we would further add, that a proper conservative to this power exists for the benefit of all, and none are required to tamely and blindly submit to a man because he has a portion of the Priesthood. We have heard men who hold the Priesthood remark, that they would do any thing they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong: but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God, who seeks for the redemption of his fellows, would despise the idea of seeing another become his slave, who had an equal right with himself to the favour of God; he would rather see him stand by his side, a sworn enemy to wrong, so long as there was place found for it among men. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty (!) authority, have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the Saints were told to do by their Presidents, they should do it without asking any questions.
When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience, as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves, and wish to pave the way to accomplish that wrong; or else because they have done wrong, and wish to use the cloak of their authority to cover it with, lest it should be discovered by their superiors, who would require an atonement at their hands.”
—”Priesthood,” Millennial Star 14/38 (13 November 1852), 594–95; italics in the original.
“What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.
Brother Joseph W. Young remarked this morning that he wished the people to receive the word of the Lord through his servants, be dictated by them, and have no will of their own. I would express it in this wise: God has placed within us a will, and we should be satisfied to have it controlled by the will of the Almighty. Let the human will be indomitable for right….
Let all persons be fervent in prayer, until they know the things of God for themselves and become certain that they are walking in the path that leads to everlasting life; then will envy, the child of ignorance, vanish, and there will be no disposition in any man to place himself above another; for such a feeling meets no countenance in the order of heaven. Jesus Christ never wanted to be different from his father: they were and are one. If a people are led by the revelations of Jesus Christ, and they are cognizant of the fact through their faithfulness, there is no fear but they will be one in Christ Jesus, and see eye to eye.”
—Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p. 150, 12 January 1862.
At first glance the first two and the second two and contradictory, however at a closer look there is an important lesson to learn here. Questioning is good, question everything. This is how we learn and develop our own testimony. We will never reach exaltation following our leaders blindly. That being said when it come to the words of the prophet we have to develop faith and not look beyond the mark. We have to learn that God’s ways are higher than our ways and acknowledge that his words are the same as God saying them Himself (when acting as the prophet). Plato’s analogy of the cave has been the best explanation to this concept I have read. Thou not written about religion truth is universal and it apples very well.
New here, I hope you don’t mind if I jump in. First, faith is not a destination it’s a journey. Never feel bad or inadequate for not living up to someone else’s expectations. This journey is yours and yours alone. Sometimes you might be crawling along at 7mph and sometimes you might be calling a cab and that’s okay. The important thing is your moving forward. Brigham Young taught it doesn’t matter how far you’ve traveled only that your on the right path. If you die while on the strait and narrow path regardless of how far you’ve traveled you will not stray from that path in the spirit world. Everybody moves at different speeds. Faith is a very personal journey and we need to learn to walk before we run. Keep in mind this is a marathon not a short race so pace yourself don’t try and keep up with the person ahead of you you’ll only get discouraged.
Second, it is my experience that God always answers prayers. It’s us who fail to see his hand, don’t get the answer we wanted, or are too impatient. In your story your daughter prayed to arrive home safely and you did. How does that show a lack of faith? More like a failure to see His hand involved in getting you home safely. God intends for us to use the brain he blessed us with. If you, or your daughter, prayed to arrive home safely and you did not feel comfortable continuing to drive pulling over and calling a cab shows wisdom, agency, and courage. If it was safe you would have felt peace about continuing. Thinking the prayer alone will magically create some sort of force field around your car is ignorant. You could also go a lot deeper. Stress is not good on the body. Even if God knew he could have got you home safely He choose to bless you with both physical and mental safety. Your faith will increase as you acknowledge His hand in everything! If God always took the wheel every time we asked we would never learn and that would defeat the whole purpose of us being here. God is not an enabler, nor will He ever drive us home. He will simply teach us how to drive and show us the way, and when we make a wrong turn he will throw a ton of obstacles in our path. God is the GPS not the hand on the wheel.
Lastly, please teach your kids to pray. Don’t give them unrealistic expectations, nor downplay its importance. Simply teach them the principle and allow them to learn through the spirit. I lived a lifetime with an inherited unrealistic expectation of faith and prayer. It only leads to feeling inadequate.
